Debt

[Joshua JZB]

Hi everyone!

So I've been thinking a lot about debt recently after hearing Proverbs 22:7 and Chris talking about paying off debt in the recent teachings on tithe.

The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.
- Proverbs 22:7

Which straight away brought to mind;

No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. - Matthew - 6:24

At the moment I am currently studying at university, which of course means a student loan. Since hearing the proverb, the fact of being debt has been weighing on my concious quite considerably. I never considered there were biblical consequences for being in debt.

But I guess that explains why modern society is essentially designed to place everyone in debt.

So now I'm making it a priority to pay off my debt and my likely course of action is to study part time, and work nearly full time, as well as look into other avenues, such as tutoring. If I do this I would be able to pay off my loan in a decent amount of time.
However I'm unsure if I should prioritize it even further, as I still lack a full understanding of the matter. Would it be better to completely halt my studies and work full-time until I paid my entire loan off? I am more reluctant to do that, but if it's what is necessary I will seek to do so.

I would very much appreciate any understanding, experience, or advice anyone might have.

Best Wishes,

Joshua

[MeganIA]

Hi Joshua,

Is it possible for you to work and go to school without taking on any more debt? You made an agreement to pay back what you currently owe, so you would want to hold to that promise you made to pay it back.

Have you looked into companies that will pay for you to go to school while you work? The place I work at offers $10k a year to cover tuition, and I know there are others that offer programs like this.

I guess the better question you'd have to ask yourself too is if going to school is necessary for the job you intend on having. Most people I know are not using their degrees. Many of us were just pressured into thinking that going to college was our only option from the indoctrinating public school system.

[creationliberty]

I don't have much to say that Megan didn't already say. You did not specify what profession you are looking into. If you are looking to be a spinal surgeon, you probably need to stay in school and work your way up to that point, but if you want to be a computer technician, there are plenty of ways to get internships that will allow you to get into a job in the field much faster and with more success than a college degree.

It's the same concept that has been around for thousands of years. If someone wanted to learn the art of metal smithing, there was no college for it, so you would go find a metal smith, offer to do menial labor for him in exchange for education; that's how people paid for their education, just through through hard work, not through getting in debt or having the government (i.e. the other taxpayers) pay for it.

[Joshua JZB]

Hi Megan and Chris,

My apologies for leaving out lots of important details. I am currently in my third year of a bachelor of science, majoring in physics and mathematics. It will take me another half a year to complete my degree because I was majoring in chemistry before math (it usually takes 3 years to complete a bachelors in NZ.)

I fully intend on becoming a high school teacher which requires a bachelors and an extra year for teachers training. However before I begin teaching I plan on working for a number of years, says 3-5. My reasoning for this is because I think it's important that teachers have some experience working in the real world as opposed to having spent their whole lives in educational institutions. Plus it adds age between myself and those I would be teaching.

What I would want to do before teaching I'm unsure of. Most science degree only tend to naturally flow into research, which I am not very interested in anymore. But a reason why I chose physics is because it teaches you critical thinking, which is transferable to a lot of different areas. And I know there are sectors, such as finance that are keen on people who have studied physics.

But to answer your questions:

Is it possible for you to work and go to school without taking on any more debt? You made an agreement to pay back what you currently owe, so you would want to hold to that promise you made to pay it back.

No, the first semester has just started at my uni so courses will be paid soon, which means getting in more debt.

Have you looked into companies that will pay for you to go to school while you work? The place I work at offers $10k a year to cover tuition, and I know there are others that offer programs like this.

I haven't but I know of some that do for things like accounting. I'm unaware of companies that do that related to what I study. I will keep an eye out for things like that though.

I guess the better question you'd have to ask yourself too is if going to school is necessary for the job you intend on having. Most people I know are not using their degrees. Many of us were just pressured into thinking that going to college was our only option from the indoctrinating public school system.

If you are looking to be a spinal surgeon, you probably need to stay in school and work your way up to that point, but if you want to be a computer technician, there are plenty of ways to get internships that will allow you to get into a job in the field much faster and with more success than a college degree.

So since teaching is what I want to end up doing, I do need to finish my degree at some point. But since it's less urgent because I want to wait, and gain experience I think I should start working my way out of debt first. The supermarket where I work at the moment is hiring a lot of new people in my department so they might be happy to give me more permanent shifts (I only have one per week at the moment), God willing.

[anvilhauler]

I hope Joshua doesn't mind me saving him some time and answering the question for him from the information that was in Joshua's introduction posting.

Joshua has finished his second year of university where he is doing a bachelor of science, majoring in physics and chemistry.
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I meet up with quite a few university students at the pool and I often ask them what they plan on doing when they graduate.  Sadly, most have never looked that far ahead and have taken out a large loan to basically persue a hobby.  Most I have found in that category are the ones doing Physical Education.  Some of them are the lifegaurds and they are working at the pool to either provide extra money while they are studying or they work other jobs too as well as working at the pool to make extra money to pay off their loan.

I'm a science graduate myself and also living in New Zealand.  Even as a graduate, when entering the workforce in the field of work you studied for you are still often entering in on the very bottom rung of the pay scale basically as an apprentice and that is if you can even find a job in the field you studied for.

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I saw this in the news here recently
Student loan nightmare: I could slap my 17-year-old self
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/118949766/student-loan-nightmare-i-could-slap-my-17yearold-self
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All I can really advise is to begin contacting prospective employers now before you even begin third year and ask about jobs or even try and get information from anywhere and also find out about how much graduates earn.  Studying at university is quite like buying a house and there is uncertainty   .....  what happens if I lose my job while paying it off?  On the salary of a typical graduate, how long will it take me to pay off my loan?  Is it worth it?  As Chris commented   .....  Is it possible for me to get a job in the field I want without being a graduate? 

Employers don't really care if you're a graduate or not in that they just want someone who can do the work and do it well and also be an excellent all round person who is great to get along with and will show initiative and go the extra mile when required to.  I have met plenty of graduates who show no initiative and are bone idle lazy   .....   and I saw one get made redundant just a few months back.  Attitude is everything. 

In time, I hope to become an employer.  If I was choosing between a graduate and someone who showed a whole lot of initiative and learned a lot themselves and could do what was required then it wouldn't necessarily be the graduate that I would be choosing to work for me.

All I can really comment is that when buying an education be very careful about what you are purchasing and how much you are paying for it and how useful it will be and how many others you are competing with when trying to find a job.

[Jeanne]

Josh, another option you might look into is online courses. They are usually much less expensive than actually attending university but the education is just as good and you can still earn a degree. I know that's true in the US and here in Australia, but not sure about NZ. Again, though, you just have to do your research on the institution and make sure they are accredited.

[Joshua JZB]

Thanks for that Kevin. Education being like buying a house is a great comparison. Both huge investments with lots to consider. I wish I had though of it like that before studiyng, though I'm very thankful for where I am currently and the options I have avaliable. I'm going to start putting a lot more effort into having a good understanding of the opportunities around me. I have started doing so a little already, but up untill this point I have fallen into the trap of thinking that my degree would sort out my career for me. And like you were saying it's more about the qualities of the person than the degree.

Thanks for that suggestion, Jeanne. I'm close to finishing my degree now at my current university so I'll likely just finish it. But if cross creditting is possible it could be a really great option. 

Also I apologise for creating this thread in the Bible Discussion topic. My questions were less biblically focused than I thought.

[anvilhauler]

Thanks for that Kevin. Education being like buying a house is a great comparison. Both huge investments with lots to consider. I wish I had though of it like that before studiyng, though I'm very thankful for where I am currently and the options I have avaliable. I'm going to start putting a lot more effort into having a good understanding of the opportunities around me. I have started doing so a little already, but up untill this point I have fallen into the trap of thinking that my degree would sort out my career for me. And like you were saying it's more about the qualities of the person than the degree.

Thanks for that suggestion, Jeanne. I'm close to finishing my degree now at my current university so I'll likely just finish it. But if cross creditting is possible it could be a really great option. 

Also I apologise for creating this thread in the Bible Discussion topic. My questions were less biblically focused than I thought.

Hi Joshua

The discussion may be a lot more suited to the Biblical discussion section than you thought it to be.

Luke 14 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
25 And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them, 26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. 27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. 28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? 29 lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, 30 saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish. 31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand? 32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace. 33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.