CLE Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dee Babbitt on September 11, 2019, 02:28:00 PM
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Hi Everyone :-)
I thought i'd post something here in the general discussion area.
Yesterday, i started doing something different...and it is helping tremendously. So I wanted to share.
Please, give me your thoughts on this.
As many of you know, my son Joshua has been very ill, for these past two years. And every day, I have cried out to God for Him to please heal Joshua. This journey has been heart-breaking, and humbling, and the Lord is teaching me SO much.
So, i've been looking up at the sky, and telling God that "i am putting this in His Hands." Looking up at the sky and seeing the beautiful trees and birds, is relaxing to me.
But, yesterday, as i was driving to the market at 6:30 AM (to get some red cabbage, to make sauerkraut for Joshua)... it was SO quiet and the idea came to me, "why don't i just 'talk to God' as if He is right next to me..." Of course I have been praying to Him, crying out to Him, and giving thanks to Him for the Blessings He gives us. But I think i've been "talking at Him."
So, this is different.
Now, I've been "talking to" Him, throughout the day, and this is making me more CALM :-)
Really knowing He is with me (He is everywhere)...is helping to take away the fear and anxiety/anger, makes me more gentle, knowing He is right next to me, humbles me and makes me "Be still and know that He is".
He gives me strength. He is with us.
Hebrews 13:5 - 13:6
5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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So, this is different.
Now, I've been "talking to" Him, throughout the day, and this is making me more CALM :-)
Really knowing He is with me (He is everywhere)...is helping to take away the fear and anxiety/anger, makes me more gentle, knowing He is right next to me, humbles me and makes me "Be still and know that He is".
He gives me strength. He is with us.
I'm so pleased for you Dee that this change has occured. It is a special feeling when you know that God is right there intimately beside you and not impersonal and way off somewhere in the sky and distant. Now that you have experienced it I'm sure this will be something you will have always from this time onwards. Once you have experienced it you can never go back again. :)
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the idea came to me, "why don't i just 'talk to God' as if He is right next to me..."
I believe that is the only way we can fulfill this verse:
1Th 5:17 Pray without ceasing.
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Often when I pray, I also find it helpful to visualize that God is sitting right beside me. It even helps to have a visual in my head. Of course that visual tends to look like the Caucasian, long haired Jesus we see in art and movies. So not sure if that is the best thing to do, honestly. But it helps and is comforting.
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the idea came to me, "why don't i just 'talk to God' as if He is right next to me..."
I believe that is the only way we can fulfill this verse:
1Th 5:17 Pray without ceasing.
Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
-James 4:8
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Often when I pray, I also find it helpful to visualize that God is sitting right beside me. It even helps to have a visual in my head. Of course that visual tends to look like the Caucasian, long haired Jesus we see in art and movies. So not sure if that is the best thing to do, honestly. But it helps and is comforting.
Actually, that's what witches do. The visualization techniques they use in sorcery and divination are not good, which is why the Bible does not teach us to do any such thing. Besides, visualization is meaningless with God since...
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
-1Jo 4:12
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I'm so pleased for you Dee that this change has occured. It is a special feeling when you know that God is right there intimately beside you and not impersonal and way off somewhere in the sky and distant. Now that you have experienced it I'm sure this will be something you will have always from this time onwards. Once you have experienced it you can never go back again. :)
Thank you, Kevin. You have always been so encouraging to me :)
Yup, I really should have done this sooner. It would have saved me a lot of stress :-/
It is amazing what a simple change of behavior can do...it can change one's perspective about everything.
It is wonderful to have God's Peace and Comfort :)
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the idea came to me, "why don't i just 'talk to God' as if He is right next to me..."
I believe that is the only way we can fulfill this verse:
1Th 5:17 Pray without ceasing.
Thank you, Kenneth. I agree, and will be doing this from now on, Lord willing i am able. The thing is, i was praying, a lot. But i thought God was far away from me, and that i had to be loud to be heard. And now, i can speak softly, and at Peace because i realize, He is right here, and He can hear me. And He knows my sadness, and He understands. I'm SO happy i have been given His Comfort.
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Thank you Jackie and Chris, for your thoughts on this, too.
Jackie, i too, wondered how to picture God next to me.
And i decided to not picture a face, but instead, to just know He is here/His presence...
and now, i just found this, where we are told He dwells in us:
1 John 4: 12-18
12No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
13Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
14And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
15Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
16And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
17Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
and oh dear, verse 18... i was having having such fear (regarding Joshua's health) and the fear did cause torment... but now that fear is gone. Thanks Be to God.
I will Trust God and lean not unto my own understanding. And I will remember my memory verse:
Matthew 8:26 And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.
He has given me a great calm.
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Thank you, Kenneth. I agree, and will be doing this from now on, Lord willing i am able. The thing is, i was praying, a lot. But i thought God was far away from me, and that i had to be loud to be heard. And now, i can speak softly, and at Peace because i realize, He is right here, and He can hear me. And He knows my sadness, and He understands. I'm SO happy i have been given His Comfort.
I have always felt uncomfortable praying out loud, even by myself. I've always just thought my prayers because God says he can hear our thoughts. And that is a very scary thing sometimes because I very often think things that are not very nice.
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Romans 8 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
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Often when I pray, I also find it helpful to visualize that God is sitting right beside me. It even helps to have a visual in my head. Of course that visual tends to look like the Caucasian, long haired Jesus we see in art and movies. So not sure if that is the best thing to do, honestly. But it helps and is comforting.
Actually, that's what witches do. The visualization techniques they use in sorcery and divination are not good, which is why the Bible does not teach us to do any such thing. Besides, visualization is meaningless with God since...
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
-1Jo 4:12
I fully realize that my image of God is incorrect because nobody has seen Him. I am not necessarily put off visualizing Him in some way just because witches happen to do something similar, though. If the Bible specifically forbids that practice in and of itself, and not just because some witches happen to do it, I am interested. Does the Bible have any specifics on how we should pray, in terms of form and manner? I know that Matthew 6 gives us some detail but is there anything else?
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If the Bible specifically forbids that practice in and of itself, and not just because some witches happen to do it, I am interested.
Well, let's address that argument, that is, generally stated, this: "If the Bible does not SPECIFICALLY forbid a practice, then it's okay for us to do."
The Bible does not SPECIFICALLY forbid Christmas. Should we then ignore the witchcraft and paganism involved in it? Or should we classify it under witchcraft and not participate in it?
The Bible does not SPECIFICALLY forbid vaccines. Should we then ignore the danger to our children and vaccinate them? Or should we classify it under murder and extortion and not participate in it?
The Bible does not SPECIFICALLY forbid psychology. Should we then ignore the fact that it is nothing more than a justification of sin? Or should we classify it under sin and depart from it so people can get the spiritual help from God that they need?
The Bible does not give every detail on every sinful thing in existence, but it does cover the foundations of those things. The Bible would be many volumes longer if it covered every sin in existence, but rather, God has left it up to us to preach the truth about individual sins, knowing the philosophical foundation we learned from His Word.
If we can't find things in the Bible concerning religious or spiritual traditions, then we have to ask ourselves: Why are we doing them? For example, the "praying hands" pressed together is a tradition I learned a long time ago in church buildings, and turns out that it is nowhere taught in Scripture, but rather, it is a tradition adopted from the Catholic Church, who got it from Eastern mysticism. Therefore, I stopped doing it. I talk more about that here:
The Biblical Understanding of Prayer (http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/prayer.php)
Visualization techniques are not spoken of in Scripture. They are, however, spoken of quite a bit in witchcraft; for example, this author talks about how they use visualization to aid them in their witchcraft practices and spells:
https://blackmagicwitch.com/introduction-to-visualization/ (https://blackmagicwitch.com/introduction-to-visualization/)
A man named Orrel Steinkamp wrote a short article on this subject of visualization being brought into church buildings, and I wanted to quote this paragraph because I have to agree with him:
"Nevertheless, all over the country specialists in healing of the memories are leading entire congregations to visualize Jesus as present at each person's birth, at some traumatic childhood episode, or even prenatal events. Purportedly, this visualized Jesus utters words of forgiveness and actually changes the historical event. Imaginative prayer functions in a similar manner. Those who are practicing and teaching these visualization techniques do acknowledge, as they must, that similar techniques are also current in occult circles. Their defense to the charge of using occultic technique is that the occult world is only counterfeiting a truth that finds its source in God. But their defense is a lie -- visualization is not taught anywhere in Scripture; there is nothing biblical for the occult to counterfeit. Remember that divination is seeking to learn hidden spiritual knowledge, and is condemned in Scripture."
And since we now know that psychology is almost indistinguishable from witch doctors, it should be no surprise that they teach those same visualization techniques, as you can see here:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-psychology-dress/201111/visualize-it (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-psychology-dress/201111/visualize-it)
So what you're doing are those same techniques. Furthermore, in the imagination, you are conjuring up the image of God OUTWARDLY. That's not where the Bible says that God resides in those who are born again.
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
-1Co 6:19
Therefore, God is closer than you are visualizing, and we ought to follow what he has instructed us to do in His Spirit, rather than what we feel like doing because witchcraft is based on feelings rather than truth.
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
-John 4:24
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Idk if this verse in Romans 1:20-23 has anything to do with making your own image of Christ in your head.
Romans 1:20-23 20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Im not saying you arent thankful and glorify God as God, but imagining God in your own way like to corruptible man.
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I don't believe that context in Romans 1 applies to her situation.
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Really knowing He is with me (He is everywhere).
I've heard this claim a lot recently and I'm not sure of its accuracy. If God is present everywhere, what is the point of the verse below:
Matthew 18:20 KJV
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
I'm not claiming that this is a proof text that disproves the position that God is everywhere, but if you take this position to its logical conclusions you will start seeing that you are claiming troubling things. For instance, is God present inside of statues and idols made for pagan gods? I'm not going to go any further because the conclusions would be shameful to write about.
Is God in you prior to salvation? If not, he is not everywhere.
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Chris: How would you interpret this, then?
Psalm 139:
7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit?
or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there:
if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
9 If I take the wings of the morning,
and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
10 even there shall thy hand lead me,
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I don't believe that context in Romans 1 applies to her situation.
Right. Yeah, I wasn't sure.
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Chris: How would you interpret this, then?
Psalm 139:
7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit?
or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there:
if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
9 If I take the wings of the morning,
and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
10 even there shall thy hand lead me,
It doesn't really matter what my understanding is. What's important is the true meaning of God's word. There is only one true interpretation that is given to men by the Holy Spirit.
My understanding is that God is with David and guiding him where he goes. Verse 10 says that God's hand is leading. In verse 13, David says that God possesses his reigns.
Psalm 139:13 KJV
For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
To me this is saying something similar to the verses below:
Matthew 28:20 KJV
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
2 Corinthians 6:16 KJV
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them ; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
I am not dogmatic on this, but I am not convinced that God is constrained to be in all places at all times.
I would ask you to give an explanation why God would say he is there if two or three are gathered in his name if he was already there. If God is everywhere, that would say that where two are gathered to worship the devil that God is there also.
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You all really should define your terms better. There seems to be a mixing of two things:
-If God resides in a person prior to salvation
-If God is everywhere at all times at the same time
It's almost as if everyone's talking past each other because it is a very different thing to say that God is not everywhere vs God not being in someone prior to salvation.
And don't forget:
If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
-Psalm 139:8
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I suppose I should start with what I think we all believe to be true.
God does not indwell the unsaved person.
2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
God exists at all times at the same time. God is present today and also exists prior to Abraham at this moment.
John 8:58 KJV
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
The part I'm not understanding is if God is not in the lost person, how could you say he is everywhere?
I see now rereading psalm 139:8 that the passage could be believed to mean that if David were to be lost, dead and in hell, God would be there.
If that is what the verse is saying, I could understand the belief that God is present everywhere and even in the presence of evil. I still would not understand how to reconcile God not being in the sinner and being present everywhere. If that is what the bible teaches, I am not more wise than God. He is right. I am wrong.
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I suppose I should start with what I think we all believe to be true.
God does not indwell the unsaved person.
2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
God exists at all times at the same time. God is present today and also exists prior to Abraham at this moment.
John 8:58 KJV
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
The part I'm not understanding is if God is not in the lost person, how could you say he is everywhere?
I see now rereading psalm 139:8 that the passage could be believed to mean that if David were to be lost, dead and in hell, God would be there.
If that is what the verse is saying, I could understand the belief that God is present everywhere and even in the presence of evil. I still would not understand how to reconcile God not being in the sinner and being present everywhere. If that is what the bible teaches, I am not more wise than God. He is right. I am wrong.
Although God is everywhere, under the old covenant a man (the high priest) met with God once a year in the holy of holies first in the tabernacle and then in the temple when that was built to replace the tabernacle. Under the new covenant and following the rending from top to bottom of the curtain to the holy of holies when Christ was crucified, the Spirit of God no longer resides in a building made with the hands of man but now resides in us. As under the old covenant there is a difference between God being everywhere because of His very nature and His wishing to personally reside in a particular place (i.e. in us) and being close to man.
Although Christ is now in us we still pray to God the Father in Heaven (although He is one and the same) just as Jesus did even though He was God in the flesh. Although God is in Heaven which is a different realm than the physical world we live in that doesn't mean that we need to look to the heavens and upper atmosphere and the starry host to talk to God as He is here and very close at all times.
I'll always have a particular impression of being surrounded by God. When I was in reconnaissance (twelve in the recon platoon) we were on an excercise one day in the middle of nowhere in scrappy bush. It came over the radio from the platoon commander that we were all to move to a particular map reference immediately. What?? All that we were doing just called to an abrupt end like that. We all met up and his patrol had just spotted a guy way out there planting marijuana. The excercise was now to observe and move in on the guy by stealth. We moved in from all directions and surrounded him and he was totally unaware that we were even there. He probably thought the nearest people would have been miles and miles away. The commander asked him "what do you think you're doing?" The guy just about leapt out of his skin. We were all totally cammed up and it was really entertaining to see the guy look around totally bewildered and see all of us standing around him in a circle and pointing M16's at him. That was a good day.
You might not think God is there but He's all around you alright and much much closer than you might think.
Anyway, I hope you liked reading a little snippet of a part of my life when I was a soldier.
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Although God is everywhere, under the old covenant a man (the high priest) met with God once a year in the holy of holies first in the tabernacle and then in the temple when that was built to replace the tabernacle. Under the new covenant and following the rending from top to bottom of the curtain to the holy of holies when Christ was crucified, the Spirit of God no longer resides in a building made with the hands of man but now resides in us. As under the old covenant there is a difference between God being everywhere because of His very nature and His wishing to personally reside in a particular place (i.e. in us) and being close to man.
Although Christ is now in us we still pray to God the Father in Heaven (although He is one and the same) just as Jesus did even though He was God in the flesh. Although God is in Heaven which is a different realm than the physical world we live in that doesn't mean that we need to look to the heavens and upper atmosphere and the starry host to talk to God as He is here and very close at all times.
I'll always have a particular impression of being surrounded by God. When I was in reconnaissance (twelve in the recon platoon) we were on an excercise one day in the middle of nowhere in scrappy bush. It came over the radio from the platoon commander that we were all to move to a particular map reference immediately. What?? All that we were doing just called to an abrupt end like that. We all met up and his patrol had just spotted a guy way out there planting marijuana. The excercise was now to observe and move in on the guy by stealth. We moved in from all directions and surrounded him and he was totally unaware that we were even there. He probably thought the nearest people would have been miles and miles away. The commander asked him "what do you think you're doing?" The guy just about leapt out of his skin. We were all totally cammed up and it was really entertaining to see the guy look around totally bewildered and see all of us standing around him in a circle and pointing M16's at him. That was a good day.
You might not think God is there but He's all around you alright and much much closer than you might think.
Anyway, I hope you liked reading a little snippet of a part of my life when I was a soldier.
Kevin, thank you for a very enjoyable snippet of your life when you were a soldier. By your description, I was able to picture everything as it happened. And it is helpful, and i am able to relate this to how God is around us. And how those of us who are saved, He is much closer...He dwells in us.
I am thankful to God, for giving Christopher and Kevin words of wisdom, and thankful for the discernment they have.
The way their explanations come out, make it so clear to understand.
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Kevin, thank you for a very enjoyable snippet of your life when you were a soldier. By your description, I was able to picture everything as it happened. And it is helpful, and i am able to relate this to how God is around us. And how those of us who are saved, He is much closer...He dwells in us.
I am thankful to God, for giving Christopher and Kevin words of wisdom, and thankful for the discernment they have.
The way their explanations come out, make it so clear to understand.
Thanks Dee. It is good to know that even some words have made things more bearable at this difficult time you're having to go through.