Excuses for alcohol

[Pilgrim Mike]

What are some of the excuses that you've been given by people to justify drinking alcohol? The most common one I hear is " Jesus drank wine ". I know there's an article about the Bible and alcohol which is a very good one as they all are. Another one is, " it says in James to have a little wine for thy stomachs sake. I don't recall reading that in the article on alcohol as far as responses goes. Sorry if I didn't word anything correctly as I'm always open to correction.

[samprice716]

Pilgrim Mike:
This is a good topic to discuss and one that I'm sure you can go back and forth on. But scripture is very clear about it. Over the years, I've heard a lot of unbelievers joke and say that "Jesus turned water into wine". And I can agree and say that unbelievers also claim that he "drank wine" or that he "ate with sinners". But never about the real problem with alcohol. Which we know is drunkenness. I do believe Jesus drank wine. Wine has an importance in scripture when compared to blood of Christ and bread being shown as his body. But we also must remember Jesus was God in the flesh. He was tempted in the desert by the devil but never gave into temptation. Here are some scriptures that come to mind talking about drunkness. Which many unbelievers don't see a problem with. And I can say this because before being saved I drank to "get drunk". And I also came from the home of my father being an abusive alcoholic.

Ephesians 5:18 KJV - "And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;"

Proverbs 20:1 KJV - "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise."

Romans 13:13 KJV - "Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying."

Isaiah 28:7 KJV - "But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment."

Proverbs 23:20 KJV - "Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh:"


Looking up in the king james dictionary you can see a "winebibber" is one who "drinks much wine"....

http://www.kingjamesbibledictionary.com/Dictionary/winebibber#:~:text=Wine-bibber%20WINE-BIBBER%2C%20noun%20One%20who%20drinks,much%20wine%3B%20a%20great%20drinker.%20Proverbs%2023%3A1.


So how much is too much? Thats another issue. Your body weight plays a factor in that as well. Just like how they judge blood alcohol content when someone is pulled over for drinking and driving. In my own life, the Lord has showed me I need to have a sober mind. And not doing anything that would make my brother fall.

1 Corinthians KJV 8:9 - "But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to them that are weak."

1 Peter 5:8 KJV - "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:"

I've personally decided to not drink. If only for special occasions and not in access. But the more I search scriptures for God's truth the more confirmation I've received to not partake at all.

[Rowan M.]

I do believe Jesus drank wine.

I agree with a great deal of what you have written here, Samantha, but I would like to address one thing. Jesus may have drunk wine, but I don't believe He ever drank ALCOHOLIC wine. In older English, non-alcoholic grape juice can sometimes be called wine. Now, there are certainly a number of places in the Bible (including some of the verses you have quoted) where wine of the alcoholic kind absolutely is meant. For example, Noah planted a vineyard, and made wine from the grapes he grew, and got drunk on it. (Genesis 9:20-21) It is clear from the context that the wine Noah drank was alcoholic.

However, it seems unlikely to me that Jesus would have created a drink that would have caused the wedding guests at Cana to sin. He would have violated this Scripture: Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness! (Habakkuk 2:15) The sin of drunkenness often leads directly to other sins: Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things. (Proverbs 23:33) The very last thing that Jesus would want to do would be to tempt people already in a fairly merry state of mind into doing anything sinful. So the only thing that makes sense is that the wine He created at the Cana wedding was unfermented grape juice. And I believe that if Jesus drank wine (I think He did at the Last Supper), it would have been non-alcoholic in the same way.

Most likely, when Paul gave Timothy (and not James!) this instruction: Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. (1 Timothy 5:23), he was also referring to non-alcoholic wine. Having said that, alcohol can sometimes have limited medicinal use (such as treating wounds). Not sure that it's much help with stomach complaints though.

Please do check out The Bible vs. Alcohol by Chris. He has quite a lot to say in that article about fermented and non-fermented wine. And he addresses some of the excuses that are made too. I think you would both find this very helpful, Mike and Samantha (and anyone else who reads this thread).

[Pilgrim Mike]

Thank you so much for replying. I just went back and reread your scripture references again. My dad used to nag me about drinking on special occasions and when we would go out to eat or go to my parents home. Me and my wife had a discussion about that one day and since then she really found out where I stand on that issue. I choose not to drink mainly because I just don't see nor understand how that can in any way glorify Christ and further His kingdom. I come from a long line of alcoholics. My grandpa, dads dad, used to make and run moonshine during prohibition and in the early 1960s. I used to drink and when I did I pretty much drank like a fish. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that the wind that Christ drank was not fermented which would require a form of rottenness which would go against the law. Keep in mind He was still walking the earth at the time He did that. I'm not saying that Jesus was different or changed as far as doctrine/teachings go. Nor am I saying that we must obey the Old Testament law. Jesus Christ, the same yesterday today and forever. Hebrews 13:8. I also quote that scripture to people when I hear them say " Jesus Christ " in vain. Either that or I'll say " name above all names ". I sincerely thank you for your reply because it aided in my further reading of the scriptures.

[Pilgrim Mike]

Thank you Rowan. I was replying to Samantha but I just finished reading your reply and thank you for your reply as well. I'm going to read that article you mentioned all the way through, most likely tomorrow morning and highlight scripture and take some notes. I don't see to many people reference the wine at Cana the way you did. Thank you.

[Caleb]

I might be a little late to this but I'll say what's on my mind.  When people talk about alcohol in the Bible I simply point to Proverbs 23:31, "Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright." This gives them the Biblical definition of what it means for something to become alcoholic.  The moment they stray from this definition I simply point back to it.  I tell them that the Bible is clear and now it is our job to take the Bible in it's context whenever wine or strong drink is mentioned and how we need to determine if it's alcohol or non-alcohol that is being talked about.  My oldest brother, Adam, is one that has used every excuse I can think of and this is the one verse that he cannot refute because it's defined.  In time, like what happened to myself, Adam will become more and more convicted of drinking alcohol just as he did with "speaking in tongues."  If indeed anybody who is truly born-again and tries to make excuses for alcohol will eventually be convicted of it one way or another, that's just one way how the spirit works in us.

[Pilgrim Mike]

Sorry for the late response. Your post Caleb is a good description of the conversations I have with family members regarding alcohol. A lot of my family like to claim Christ when it's convenient for them especially when it comes to drinking alcohol on a social basis. They like to say that Christ drank wine and they, from what I see, ignore the scripture you mentioned. One example of not being of the world is abstaining from alcohol. I believe most people over look that verse when talking about alcohol to others. Thanks and God bless.