COVID-19

[Hakim Mohamad]

Hi everyone,
I think, most of you will by now have heard about the upcoming disease from China.
Everyone is talking about it, but oddly I have not yet found anyone talk about this from a Christian perspective.
What can we do to protect ourselves, relatives and people in our church and still be salt and light, when things get really bad?
I must admitt that I'm a bit worried about myself, especially If the supply chain gets disrupted, that our society depends on so much.
But on the other hand I also see this as a chance that many lost people could get saved in their desperation, If things get bad.
I know that it's not in my power to survive this or not.
I have food and water for Up to a month, but I live in a city in a not so nice area and couldn't protect myself If I get robbed. (Too difficult to own guns in Germany).
I also live alone, so If I'm outside to mind my business, someone could break in and steal everything.
I have to use the Subway every day to go to work, so my risk is high that I get infected, If this starts spreading here like it is now in Asia.
So I know very well that only God can get me through this, If that's his plan.
My Family are all unbelievers.
Also they are scattered across the whole country, living hundereds of Miles appart from each other. So my parents and Sisters are all vulnerable.
I was thinking about If, and if, at what point, it would be wise to go back to my father's house and hope that my mother and sisters do the same...
(My parents are Not divorced, but my mom works in the other side of the country and only spends her holidays at home :-( like I Said, the whole family is divided across the country... )

I also just wanted to ask, what your thoughts about this disease are. Have you thought about the possible outcomes? Do you have any conclusions? How are you going to be dealing with the situation?
What could positive outcomes be?
What long term changes could this bring forth?

[MeganIA]

I only get my news from independent news sources. I am not sure about how Germany is talking about this, but at least in the states, what they are talking about in mainstream news sources now was discussed in independent sources weeks ago when sites like Twitter banned at least one account for discussing the virus possibly coming from the BSL 4 lab in Wuhan.

From a biblical perspective, we should not fear it taking us. We know that this will cause supply chain issues. With that knowledge, getting some extra food and other supplies is warranted here. You think of all the famines in the bible, Gods people were led to prepare for what is ahead by gathering extra food.

In my opinion after reading the few scientific articles that have come out on this and from some of the leaked information coming from people in China, this is a manmade virus. With that being said, God uses mans errors for His will. He is in control here, and for all we know, this might be a crucial time for the church to bring the truth but also could be a major time of trial for us all.

Long term, I cannot really say. I have been praying over this for both for Gods people in China and in other impacted counties to come as well as for direction in this situation. All I have gotten is to continue to trust in Gods plan.

[creationliberty]

I would take that one step further; the Lord God is not "using error," but rather, he allowed this to happen, meaning that He had foreknowledge of it, and gave those men the resources and knowledge to develop it. It is not to say that He created this evil, but allowed it to persist for a reason, and thus, we Christians need to stop worrying about the diseases of this world.

I'll say this bluntly: If you are looking for a "Christian perspective," then that demonstrates a very base, childish level of understanding of Scripture and faith in Jesus Christ. What can we do to protect ourselves? Go to God the Father in prayer, who is the creator of all things. How little faith do you have that you even need to ask?

Rather, if you believe you will be exposed to these diseases for whatever reason, then ask that others to pray together that those diseases will not take hold on you and your family.

[strangersmind]

I live almost at the center of the out break. We have plane loading of Chinese sent back to China because of the outbreak. I do not run around buying food and gas mask. But rather have no need for such things because I know how powerful my God is

[anvilhauler]

From a microbiological perspective a new virus such as this one is of a very minor concern.  The chances of being debilitated or killed by a virus such as influenza is much higher.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html
While the impact of flu varies, it places a substantial burden on the health of people in the United States each year. CDC estimates that influenza has resulted in between 9 million - 45 million illnesses, between 140,000 - 810,000 hospitalizations and between 12,000 - 61,000 deaths annually since 2010.

Those who have died from the COVID-19 are mainly elderly and those with other underlying health problems and it is found that children are not succumbing to it.  The death toll is very tiny.  In China a few thousand people have died.  What's the population of China again?  Other places in the world have had a small number of people die or have had people catch the common cold influenza COVID-19 but have recovered and continued on living.

In the meantime how many people have died on the roads in crashes and how many people have died from being shot.  The most common coronavirus we come across all the time is the common cold.

Although it is always good to quarantine infected people to prevent a viral infection spreading, the measures taken in China do seem to be an overkill. 

[Jeanne]

Although it is always good to quarantine infected people to prevent a viral infection spreading, the measures taken in China do seem to be an overkill.

I can't help but suspect that the Chinese government is using the virus as an excuse to implement some measures they have been wanting to take for political reasons anyway. The freedom movement that started in Hong Kong had recently spread to mainland China and the regime simply could not have that. This outbreak has given them the perfect cover to take measures that would have been condemned in the international community otherwise.

[anvilhauler]

Although it is always good to quarantine infected people to prevent a viral infection spreading, the measures taken in China do seem to be an overkill.

I can't help but suspect that the Chinese government is using the virus as an excuse to implement some measures they have been wanting to take for political reasons anyway. The freedom movement that started in Hong Kong had recently spread to mainland China and the regime simply could not have that. This outbreak has given them the perfect cover to take measures that would have been condemned in the international community otherwise.

That's very much how I'm seeing it too. 

[Hakim Mohamad]

I'll say this bluntly: If you are looking for a "Christian perspective," then that demonstrates a very base, childish level of understanding of Scripture and faith in Jesus Christ. What can we do to protect ourselves? Go to God the Father in prayer, who is the creator of all things. How little faith do you have that you even need to ask?

Fair Point.
Yet, wouldn't I in general be tempting the Lord if I, to the best of my knowledge and understanding, saw a potential threat coming and then wouldn't take reasonable precautions? I'm Not talking about quittung my Job and moving into a bombshelter in the woods...

Regarding that Virus: I don't Trust the Data coming Out of China and the Data from outside of China indicates that it spreads exponentially. Only God knows the proportions that it will get.

If you like, I can give some links to News and commentary about the case numbers, but it's not my goal to convince anybody of anything.
I Just want to make a biblical decision for myself, regarding the issue of physically preparing for disasters.
I know that Joseph prepared, when God showed the Pharao that bad times were ahead.
I'm not saying that my observations of the outbreak are divine inspiration or a sign of the end of days. I'm just looking at the information and interpret it in a certain way, that tells me, there is a threat, that could potentially cause a major breach in the supply chain. I Hope it won't!
I know that God is in control and that He can also use disasters in his plan.
I hope that many of the affected people can get humbled and can come to repentance and be born again.
I hope that this also brings our brothers and sisters closer to the Lord, and strengthens them, if their faith is weak, which is also what I'm often struggling with.
My question for now is wether it is wrong to take action and physically prepare for something that will hopefully not happen any time soon.
I have never experienced a severe crisis. I have not yet whitnessed, how it affects groups of believers and how it affects myself.
I pray that I can be somewhat helpful and most important that God protects my faith. I believe that He will, but sometimes I really get weak and discouraged.

[Timothy]

I'll say this bluntly: If you are looking for a "Christian perspective," then that demonstrates a very base, childish level of understanding of Scripture and faith in Jesus Christ. What can we do to protect ourselves? Go to God the Father in prayer, who is the creator of all things. How little faith do you have that you even need to ask?

Fair Point.
Yet, wouldn't I in general be tempting the Lord if I, to the best of my knowledge and understanding, saw a potential threat coming and then wouldn't take reasonable precautions? I'm Not talking about quittung my Job and moving into a bombshelter in the woods...

If you're going to stay where you are and you already have food and water to last you a little while, why would you think that just having faith and asking for God's protection would be tempting Him?

[Hakim Mohamad]

I'll say this bluntly: If you are looking for a "Christian perspective," then that demonstrates a very base, childish level of understanding of Scripture and faith in Jesus Christ. What can we do to protect ourselves? Go to God the Father in prayer, who is the creator of all things. How little faith do you have that you even need to ask?

Fair Point.
Yet, wouldn't I in general be tempting the Lord if I, to the best of my knowledge and understanding, saw a potential threat coming and then wouldn't take reasonable precautions? I'm Not talking about quittung my Job and moving into a bombshelter in the woods...

If you're going to stay where you are and you already have food and water to last you a little while, why would you think that just having faith and asking for God's protection would be tempting Him?

Two reasons:
I'm not the only person on earth.
As I See it, I to some degree have a responsibility to prevent harm from my brothers and sisters in christ, if I can. So I try to inform others about the potential threat.
I can have enough food, but If other members suffer the whole body suffers.
I know that born again Christians are suffering poverty, hunger, thirst and nakedness and persecution all over the world, but it becomes more real, if it is someone you know.
I recently met someone, whom i tried to help, but I couldn't do much for his situation. It's painful to see that people suffer under these conditions.
Of course I also would like to protect my parents and siblings, If possible.
(Which is difficult, given that they all live quite far away from me and each other and hold very different beliefs and usually do not listen to anything I say)
My biggest concern is not the disease, but what happens when people are panicking. I saw in the news what happened in New Orleans after Catrina devastated the area, how people were looting and fighting for food and clean water.

I know that Things are not in my control and that only God can protect us in such a situation.
Yesterday I was thinking about talking to some people in my local church in order to Take some preparations and make an emergency plan.
But I realized that I instinctively went too far, when I started brainstorming people who I thought might have millitary experience.
So I stopped it.
I have the food that I bought. I have the water that I bought and I have talked to one close friend that we should think about preparing our local church for a shortage of food and other resources.
Today I told him that I will not go any further with any preparations because they divert my trust away from God towards my own skill and planning and this will lead to failure.
I don't want to build my house on the sand. If I rely on these things, my house will collapse on myself and I will be crushed under the debris, as soon as the rain comes.

I don't know what will happen. Maybe this is all a big scare with No substance. Yesterday they found 150 infected in Italy and they quarantained 11 small towns in north italy.
When has something Like that ever happened?
Maybe they are just testing how they can force people to give Up their rights with fear.
Who knows in this insane world, what is really happening.
Whether this is a new spanish flu or just a couple of thousand people die, it looks like rough times are coming.

I think preparing is Not inherently sinfull, if someone is mature enough not to idolize his preparations.
Right now I'm not that guy. That's why I have to stop and Take a step back. I Hope that I have not already caused some damage.

[anvilhauler]

If you're going to stay where you are and you already have food and water to last you a little while, why would you think that just having faith and asking for God's protection would be tempting Him?

I just had to throw in here that God can never be tempted to do what is wrong.

Although people can provoke God to anger, He can't be tempted.  I'm just picking though about what temptation means Biblically in being put in a situation of doing what is right and what is wrong and sinful.

James 1 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. 13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 but every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Preparation for disasters surely is at the core of God's principles as we are instructed to repent and turn away from sin due to the fact that we are going to be judged.

Where I live here in New Zealand we are very prone to severe earthquakes and everyone should have personal survival gear and a stockpile of food and water.  In an emergency one doesn't really want people who made absolutely no effort to then start pestering for supplies because they spent their money on eating out, drinking beer and watching pay to view television.

[Hakim Mohamad]

I just had to throw in here that God can never be tempted to do what is wrong.

Although people can provoke God to anger, He can't be tempted.  I'm just picking though about what temptation means Biblically in being put in a situation of doing what is right and what is wrong and sinful.

I was thinking about Matthew 4 Verse 7.

5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

As far as I can tell, tempting the Lord has two meanings.
One is causing God to Fall into temptation, which I agree, is Impossible.
In Matthew 4 that was exactly what the devil was trying and of course he failed.

The second is taking one of God's promised out of biblical context and trying to to force God to deliver upon His promise in a situation to which these promises do not apply. (For example, If God tells us that He will protect us from harm, and we then start acting negligent or prideful)
That is what Jesus probably would have been guilty of, had He jumped.
If we act prideful or negligent, we are provoking God's anger.

[Timothy]

If you're going to stay where you are and you already have food and water to last you a little while, why would you think that just having faith and asking for God's protection would be tempting Him?

Two reasons:
I'm not the only person on earth.
As I See it, I to some degree have a responsibility to prevent harm from my brothers and sisters in christ, if I can. So I try to inform others about the potential threat.
I can have enough food, but If other members suffer the whole body suffers.
I know that born again Christians are suffering poverty, hunger, thirst and nakedness and persecution all over the world, but it becomes more real, if it is someone you know.
I recently met someone, whom i tried to help, but I couldn't do much for his situation. It's painful to see that people suffer under these conditions.
Of course I also would like to protect my parents and siblings, If possible.
(Which is difficult, given that they all live quite far away from me and each other and hold very different beliefs and usually do not listen to anything I say)
My biggest concern is not the disease, but what happens when people are panicking. I saw in the news what happened in New Orleans after Catrina devastated the area, how people were looting and fighting for food and clean water.

I know that Things are not in my control and that only God can protect us in such a situation.
Yesterday I was thinking about talking to some people in my local church in order to Take some preparations and make an emergency plan.
But I realized that I instinctively went too far, when I started brainstorming people who I thought might have millitary experience.
So I stopped it.
I have the food that I bought. I have the water that I bought and I have talked to one close friend that we should think about preparing our local church for a shortage of food and other resources.
Today I told him that I will not go any further with any preparations because they divert my trust away from God towards my own skill and planning and this will lead to failure.
I don't want to build my house on the sand. If I rely on these things, my house will collapse on myself and I will be crushed under the debris, as soon as the rain comes.

I don't know what will happen. Maybe this is all a big scare with No substance. Yesterday they found 150 infected in Italy and they quarantained 11 small towns in north italy.
When has something Like that ever happened?
Maybe they are just testing how they can force people to give Up their rights with fear.
Who knows in this insane world, what is really happening.
Whether this is a new spanish flu or just a couple of thousand people die, it looks like rough times are coming.

I think preparing is Not inherently sinfull, if someone is mature enough not to idolize his preparations.
Right now I'm not that guy. That's why I have to stop and Take a step back. I Hope that I have not already caused some damage.

Whether or not someone stores food and water in case of an emergency is not what Megan, Chris and myself are talking about and nobody said that was a sin. What I think they were addressing and what I am trying to get you to see is the lack of faith you have in God's Word because of your worry over the matter.

Matthew 6:25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

The Lord Jesus Christ said don't worry about what you will eat and to not worry about what will happen the next day because as God takes care of the animals and feeds them, He does much more so towards us. What you are doing is worrying about what will happen tomorrow and whether or not you, and others, will have food. That's not having faith in what Jesus said.

If you're not at a point where you think you need to move somewhere and you already have provisions in stock, which I would think is more than the "reasonable precaution" that you mentioned, then why is it you are worried when Jesus said not to worry about these things. That's what I'm trying to get at. We can pray for you and your family. If you feel you need to travel hundreds of miles and convince your family they need to move to safety, that's up to you, but nothing will happen to anybody that God does not will or allow to happen. If they have God's protection, then no harm will come to them.

Matthew 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.

[coteluke]

Wuhan, China was one of the first test-beds for the rollout of 5G.
http://en.hubei.gov.cn/news/newslist/201804/t20180416_1275769.shtml

I know correlation ≠ causation, but its an interesting thought nonetheless.

[MeganIA]

Its possible 5G could be impacting the severity in Wuhan. 60ghz frequency has oxygen absorbing capabilities.

[creationliberty]

I know this thread has been dead for a while, but I wanted to comment once more on it. You all may have noticed I did not say much about this at all, not even in the audio teachings I have produced. In fact, when we had our church gatherings, I tried to steer us away from the topic. We did discuss it some, but not much, and the reason for that is because I was trying to get everyone to understand that the "COVID-19" scare in the U.S. was almost entirely politically motivated and designed by the mainstream media.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ9QG3NVOiY

I do not know who the author of this video is, so I do not want to lead people into his channel, but I saw it recommended while I was doing some research today, and something led me to click on this. I wanted to share it with you all so you would understand that powers that control mainstream media would rather you all suffer and starve than to let Trump be in the presidential office for another four years. THAT is what this whole thing is about, and I have seen far more evidence to that beyond what is pointed out in this video.

The reason Lorraine and I did not panic is because we trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, and furthermore, I prefer to wait for more information to come out before addressing these topics. If others in the church were shaking in fear over this, then I believe you should be somewhat ashamed because you are not trusting in your Lord, and that you need to spend more time in the Word of God to strengthen your faith.

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
-Rom 10:17

[strangersmind]

It seems a little over board to shut down most world to keep trump from running agin. The only reason we are shut down is because we do not have what blessed American has. We can't hardly keep up with 3000 sick little alone 100000 America has.

[anvilhauler]

The same theme goes on in the "church buildings" where people who claim to be Christians are way more influenced by Femi-Nazi media sensationalism than they are by the Word of God.


Such situations always make me think of this piece of scripture where the words from man are taken in preference to the given word of God.

1 Kings 13 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
11 Now there dwelt an old prophet in Beth-el; and his sons came and told him all the works that the man of God had done that day in Beth-el: the words which he had spoken unto the king, them they told also to their father. 12 And their father said unto them, What way went he? For his sons had seen what way the man of God went, which came from Judah. 13 And he said unto his sons, Saddle me the ass. So they saddled him the ass: and he rode thereon, 14 and went after the man of God, and found him sitting under an oak: and he said unto him, Art thou the man of God that camest from Judah? And he said, I am. 15 Then he said unto him, Come home with me, and eat bread. 16 And he said, I may not return with thee, nor go in with thee: neither will I eat bread nor drink water with thee in this place: 17 for it was said to me by the word of the Lord, Thou shalt eat no bread nor drink water there, nor turn again to go by the way that thou camest. 18 He said unto him, I am a prophet also as thou art; and an angel spake unto me by the word of the Lord, saying, Bring him back with thee into thine house, that he may eat bread and drink water. But he lied unto him. 19 So he went back with him, and did eat bread in his house, and drank water.

20 And it came to pass, as they sat at the table, that the word of the Lord came unto the prophet that brought him back: 21 and he cried unto the man of God that came from Judah, saying, Thus saith the Lord, Forasmuch as thou hast disobeyed the mouth of the Lord, and hast not kept the commandment which the Lord thy God commanded thee, 22 but camest back, and hast eaten bread and drunk water in the place, of the which the Lord did say to thee, Eat no bread, and drink no water; thy carcase shall not come unto the sepulchre of thy fathers.

Hence the reason why I generally ignore the media and their sensationalism and debate is a noose around their own necks.

[Jeanne]

I figured this was political pretty much from the very beginning, though it goes a lot further than just Trump. The timing is just too convenient. Remember the massive freedom protests that were going on in Hong Kong? That movement was starting to spill over into mainland China. Furthermore, there were also massive protests against pollution in Wuhan because the government was planning to build a bunch of giant incinerators. Both of those protests got shut down pretty quickly once this 'virus' broke out, as did the Yellow Vest movement in France.

Bill Gates has been talking about a worldwide pandemic for years, if not decades, and his goal has always been to get everyone in the world vaccinated. Don't be surprised if, somewhere down the track, you're going to have to provide 'proof of vaccination' papers in order to do things like travel, renew your driver license, etc. They may even put some sort of nanotechnology into the vaccines so that they can tell from scanner whether you've had it or not.

Another thing is that America's economy has been artificially propped up ever since the removal of the gold standard. I think part of this is a deliberate attempt to take down the economies of the world and blaming it on the 'virus'. The number of people dying from this is being artificially inflated; i.e. doctors are calling ALL deaths 'COVID-19-related' regardless of the actual cause death, whether it be from a gunshot, cancer, or whatever. I agree the panic has been deliberately manufactured. I haven't watched the video Chris posted yet, but I'll be surprised if it says anything I haven't already heard.

More people die of the flu every year than have died of COVID-19, yet the world doesn't get shut down because of that. Why should this one be different? I find it very interesting that this whole thing started in China and their whole country was shut down for a while, too, but they are completely back up and running again (although I'm sure, minus all the political dissidents that they had before).

[MeganIA]

I did not think what the governments were pushing out was the truth. The virus has been what many other events have, a way to instill public fear to some scapegoat so preplanned agendas can be the solution. AI technologies appear to be the big winner of this event.