Author Topic: Why the "Y" names?  (Read 389 times)

OsoWeakbutHeIsStrong

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Why the "Y" names?
« on: February 10, 2023, 11:29:31 PM »
Yeshua, Yahweh, Yah...

Why do these names not sit well with my spirit?  I can't find them in my KJV Bible and if I may be so bold, when I hear people use these names, it's like fingernails on a chalkboard to me.  WH"Y"?

Perhaps I'm over reacting? Are they not as bad as I think? It's good that I get this out on the table because I need this to be settled, and I feel safe asking a body of born again believers.

There are a few things that I do know:

1) Shortly before I was born again, I tried to pray to a "Y" name and I literally felt repulsed.  It just didn't feel right.

2) Then I heard that Yeshu in Hebrew means, "may His name be forgotten(?) or obliiterated(?)"

3) Shortly after I was saved, I happened upon an article that was entitled something like this:
Rabbi Finds Yeshua By Reading the Torah

I'm not sure if that was the exact name of the article.  I think I could probably find it again if anyone is interested, but that article led me to believe that the "Y" names are actually evil.

Maybe my thinking is off and one of these names is okay?  Or maybe I'm on to something and none of them are good (and quite possibly even evil).

I know that I feel comfortable with JEHOVAH...

And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Exodus 6:3


That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.
Psal  83:18


Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.
Isaiah 12:2


Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength.
Isaiah 26:4


I feel safe with JAH...

Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him.
Psalm 68:4


I'm secure with "I AM"...

And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Exodus 3:14


I'm most comfortable with Heavenly Father..

After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Matthew 6:9


And, of course, Jesus...

And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Luke 1:31


Maybe someone can help me out by clearing some things up for me.  There's just so much to learn and unlearn, and I've been wrong many times since being born again. I just want to finally put this to topic to rest and be settled about it for good.

Thank you so much for any correction or confirmation. 

someguy85

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Re: Why the "Y" names?
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2023, 12:22:08 AM »
Far as I remember, in scripture the two times the name "I AM" is used is the first time for the Father in Exodus, and the second for the Son, Jesus Christ in Matthew, and the use of the name referring to himself as God made the pharasies furious. And if you look at some of the anti-thiest philosophy out there, for example their reasoning for being sentient "i think therefore I am", looking at it now I believe this to be one of their most blasphemous lines and most don't even realise it.

Think about just the implication of the name, I AM. God is, and always was, is everywhere, knows everything and is not under anyone or anything, he doesn't have to clarify or expand by saying who he is, what he is, where he is, what he's done or what he's thinking or planning. And if you look in Revelation (19 if I remember right), there is, on the rider that comes out of heaven, a name written on his thigh that no one knows but him, so there's every chance that we can not know, understand or possibly even pronounce his REAL name. So I don't believe the line that "we have to use his name in Hebrew or he won't hear us" argument is as weak as wet tissue paper, if that was the case then virtually no one in the western world would have been saved in the centuries past. In eastern Africa for example, they use the name Iaesu, and while there are plenty of false churches there as well, are they not saved if they don't use the right syllables and sounds?

I don't pretend to know the extent of every language out there or what happens on every level when someone is saved, but it was God that split the languages at the tower of Babel, and he knows the words and the hearts of men, so, it's reasonable to think that he knows when someone is calling him God the Father and confessing his Son Jesus Christ and believing he is the only begotten Son, after being convicted of and repenting of their sin.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this but I certainly don't think that "if you don't say his name right, he will not hear" is correct at all, after all, there are many titles for a ruler all over the world, King, Emperor, Judge, Shogun, Sultan, Maharraja, President, Chief, Elder, Tzar, Ceazar...the list goes on, but it's still acknowledging a position of leadership, rulership and authority. I'd say that confessing that the LORD is the highest authority is what matters and also confessing his only Son as the one who made the sacrifice that is the only thing that can redeem and save us.
Romans: {11:3} Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. {11:4} But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to [the image of] Baal.

OsoWeakbutHeIsStrong

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Re: Why the "Y" names?
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2023, 02:24:55 AM »
Quote
And if you look at some of the anti-thiest philosophy out there, for example their reasoning for being sentient "i think therefore I am", looking at it now I believe this to be one of their most blasphemous lines and most don't even realise it.

You are so right!  And we know that was all intentional, don't we.  It's just their pathetic attempt of giving God Almighty the middle finger.  Talk about proud and arrogant and yes, extremely blasphemous. 

I know that the Invictus Games had that same blasphemy with their logo:
(I tried to post a pic, but I'm not sure if it will show up)
       
Quote
And if you look in Revelation (19 if I remember right), there is, on the rider that comes out of heaven, a name written on his thigh that no one knows but him, so there's every chance that we can not know, understand or possibly even pronounce his REAL name.

I agree

Quote
So I don't believe the line that "we have to use his name in Hebrew or he won't hear us" argument is as weak as wet tissue paper, if that was the case then virtually no one in the western world would have been saved in the centuries past

Yep! Totally! 

Quote
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this but I certainly don't think that "if you don't say his name right, he will not hear" is correct at all,

I understand that there are different languages and people pronounce the name of Jesus in different ways, but my issue here is with these "Y" names.  It just seems like a way to take away from the name of Jesus. (I could be wrong about that, though)

Has anyone been saved by calling out to Yahweh for salvation?  I'm not sure.  I've never heard of that happening.  Maybe it's not such a big deal and I just need to get over it.  LOL!  If anyone uses these names I would love to know why and have it all explained to me.



someguy85

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Re: Why the "Y" names?
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2023, 04:54:45 AM »
Yup, the pictures definitely showed up, and to the anti-theists, their god is themselves.

I think what might irritate you about it is the attitude "I do this therefore you should too, if not you aren't saved." Run into that attitude a few times witch church goers "if you don't go to church you aren't saved"  ::) If they were more inclined to say "here's something interesting, in Hebrew his name is Yeshua" or something to that effect, fair enough, but also I think the attitude of "you have to say X this way or Y won't happen" is dangerously close to the idea of how you get things through magick, and that's just not how God works, anyone can say something but without any sincerity it is vain, that's why God ponders the hearts.
Romans: {11:3} Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. {11:4} But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to [the image of] Baal.

Rowan M.

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Re: Why the "Y" names?
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2023, 05:01:13 AM »
A likely reason why the "Y" names don't sit well with you, Annalisa, is because they are commonly used by Hebrew Roots cultists who want to be more "authentic" by calling God by His Hebrew name, and Jesus by His. Even some people who are not Hebrew Roots cultists sometimes like to use Hebrew words or Hebrew names for God, because they think that doing so makes them more "Christian" somehow. Some Pentecostals and Charismatics do this, for example. There's an element of Judaising with this as well (like what happened in New Testament times). And as "Aussie Chris" has just mentioned, people also tend to use the Hebrew names of God as kind of "magic" words. They think that God will grant their wishes if they address Him by His "proper" Hebrew names.

If they really want to be more authentic, they should call Jesus "Iesous", the Greek name which was used in the New Testament (originally written in Greek). "Yeshua" is actually a Hebrew translation of this since the name Jesus doesn't appear in the Old Testament. (It can also be pronounced "Yashua" and the name "Joshua" is closely associated with it.) The word Christ is from the Greek "Christos", which means "anointed one". (Fun fact: the Hebrew equivalent is "Mashiach", which is where we get our word "Messiah". In Psalm 2:2, this word is used for the English word "anointed", and when the verse is quoted in Acts 4:26, the word "Christos" is used in the Greek text, which is why the English translation says "Christ" rather than "anointed" again.)

The letter "J" is a rather curious one. In many languages, it's pronounced like "Y". (These include German, Dutch, Scandinavian languages and some central European languages.) In others, it's pronounced more like our J, but often softer (like in French). In some languages, like Greek, their equivalent of "I" doubles as a "J", and is pronounced like "Y" at the beginning of words. So "Iesous" is pronounced "YE-soos". The Hebrew "alef-bet" includes a little letter called yod (also spelt yodh). It looks like a small apostrophe: '. (Another fun fact is that in the "alef-bet", there are three letters that look like vertical lines. I call them "The Three Bears". The "papa bear" is Nun - the Hebrew N - which takes one shape at the beginning or in the middle of words, but looks like a large vertical line at the end of a word. The "mama bear" is Vav, which is a medium vertical line and is the equivalent of either B or V, depending on circumstances. It can also be used to substitute for vowels, so ends up being used a lot in modern Hebrew. And the "baby bear" is Yod. So if you ever decide to learn Hebrew, that's an easy way to remember those particular three letters.) When used at the start of words, it gives them a "y" sound. Hebrew words starting with Yod tend to become either J or Y words in English. For example, in Hebrew, the word "Jehovah" is pronounced like "Yehova" and starts with this Yod letter. Why we say "Jehovah" and not "Yehova" probably has to do with the way the English language has developed through the centuries.

A note of caution on the name "Jah": while this name is Biblical, it is used by the Rastafarians as the name for their god. They have stolen it from Psalm 68:4. Obviously, using that name in prayer doesn't make you a Rastafarian, but you wouldn't want people to think that if you happened to be praying with others around. Also, the name "Jehovah" has been hijacked by the Jehovah's Witnesses, so be a bit cautious with that as well.

In conclusion, there is nothing wrong per se with using Hebrew names for God, but there's also absolutely no need for it. The names of God and Jesus Christ are perfectly fine for all speakers of English. As I say, the Hebrew names are commonly used by people who are making a pretence of being more "authentic Christians" by going back to the Bible's "original language". But if they truly wanted to be more authentic, they should incorporate Greek as well as Hebrew names into their vocabulary. (Of course, that would be just as pretentious.) To me, the most Biblical address we can use in prayer is simply "Father" or "Heavenly Father". Jesus Himself prayed to the Father, and the Lord's Prayer (which was meant as a general model for prayer and not for repetitious prayer heathen-style) opens with the words "Our Father". However, if you want to use another Biblical name for God when praying, I don't think that's wrong. The Bible never says that God won't hear us if we don't use "the right name", but it does say He won't hear us if we regard iniquity in our hearts (Psalm 66:18). So He doesn't hear the people who use His Hebrew names for a pretence, because He can see the pride in their hearts behind that.

Interesting about the Invictus Games using "I Am" in their logo. They were founded by Prince Harry, who has all sorts of issues, but this is not the thread to go into those. I'll just say that it doesn't surprise me that something he's behind would include this sort of thing. Incidentally, I have a smattering of modern Hebrew and Greek through studying them on Duolingo. They differ somewhat from the ancient languages used to write the Bible, just as modern English differs from old or medieval English, but anyway, that's how I have come to know a bit about them.
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth (John 17:17)

creationliberty

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Re: Why the "Y" names?
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2023, 10:26:18 AM »
Perhaps it could be said this way, the only other place I know of where pronunciation is highly revered in the religious sense is in pagan spell-casting, and with the way I see a lot of church-ianity cultists acting on this subject, they are treating prayer like spell-casting, believing that they get more "spiritual power" from pronouncing words in certain ways, rather than simply praying with understanding.

What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
-1Co 14:15
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

OsoWeakbutHeIsStrong

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Re: Why the "Y" names?
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2023, 04:26:29 PM »
Amen!!  Thank you all for helping me out with this.  Yes, it bugged me about the Hebrew Roots movement and "sacred name movement".

So what I'm hearing y'all say is that:

1)"Y" names are not evil, but they're not neccessary.

2) People can pray using these names if they feel comfortable.

3) These names ARE misused, but God knows the heart (when they are and when they're not.)

Correct me if I'm wrong.

As far as what Aussie Chris and Christopher said, yes, I saw that the "Y" names were also used in Kabbalah magik.  That is also what made me think that they were evil.

I also have one question:  Do you or people in your church use these names? 

Just so I'm prepared (insert laughing emoji). 

By the way Rowan, I love it that you are a language person.  I love studying other languages as well.  I don't have a lot of time to do it anymore, since I was born again not that long ago and feel this urgency to get as much Bible in me as possible.  But I used to nanny for an Egyptian family and during that time, I studied Arabic so that I could teach it to the children.  (They weren't as interested as I was. LOL) 

I learned the alphabet and used to be able to read words, but that's pretty much gone now.  I pick up languages pretty quickly (or at least USED to be able to...I'm not sure anymore), and language is definitely an interst of mine.  However, like I said, all my intrests have gone by the wayside as I study the word of God and try to catch up with ya'll in understanding.