John from FL

[John93]

Hi Everyone,

I found CLE a while ago. I've read many of the articles and listened to many of the audio teachings but never introduced myself. I've been meaning to join for a long time as it's extremely hard to find a group of believers who want to follow Christ in truth. I'm surrounded by 501c3 church buildings.

Eventually, I will most likely ask to be an official member but for now, I want to start with my testimony. I know it's lengthy (despite it being the "short" version), but I didn't want to miss important details. Please see below:

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-I grew up wanting for nothing. Still, I dealt with seasons of crippling depression and wondering about the purpose of life despite being raised in church/youth group culture, in a religious home, and feeling emotional during the unbiblical altar call and praying a "repeat after me" style prayer every so often.

-Grew up being forced to sing the song “Gentle Jesus meek and mild” before bed by my parents. After reading about Christ for myself in my late teens, realized he was gentle at times, but also stern and he did not shy away from topics like hell.

-In fact, he was clear about what Hell would be like and who would be going there. He said follow me and didn’t back down, whereas in the typical church building, they teach “accept Jesus please, he loves you so much” which is partially true, but not at all how Christ presented himself.

Christ was never desperate for followers (or big numbers so he could brag about all the salvations during a sunday service), and didn’t stutter when he said “repent or you will likewise perish”. I had never seen this side of Jesus before for myself and it pierced me to the core. Reading though the gospels was genuinely hard and honestly each sentence felt like a personal rebuke from Christ himself to me.

-I also read extra biblical content like Sinners In the Hands of an Angry God, Jesus-is Savior.com, Ray Comfort’s Hell’s Best Kept Secret, and heard Paul Washer’s “Unpopular Youth Message”

-I became undone after this. I couldn’t eat or sleep properly for at least a few weeks as I felt the hand of God heavy upon me. One night I couldn’t seem to fall asleep as I sincerely trembled knowing God could throw me into hell at any moment and be justified. I actually prayed, in my heart “please God, don’t let me die until I know I’m saved”

This is a far cry from how I used to view myself. I got an honesty award in 3rd grade and a Christian character award in 6th grade. Deep down I knew I didn’t deserve these awards and was battling sin even as a young teen, but to finally see myself as God saw me (a hell deserving sinner) was definitely eye opening and terrifying. Nothing mattered anymore except knowing that my sins were forgiven.

Ultimately, I hit a point where after reading the words of the publican. I went to my bedroom and asked God directly to have mercy on me, a sinner.

Sadly, after this, I struggled for a long time regarding whether or not I was saved because there is so much confusion regarding how to be saved and how words are defined biblically.

 One teacher would correctly teach the law as the schoolmaster to Christ (which heavily convicted me) and then say repentance is a complete turning from sin and I needed to confess and to name the specific sins as a prerequisite for salvation (like Ray comfort). I didn't know if I had truly done what God asked of me and did not want to find out I was going to hell on Judgement Day.


I also asked many people in my life about how I could know if I was truly saved or not but didn’t know if I could even trust what they said. Surprisingly, some said that a genuine concern on whether or not I was saved was actually a sign I was saved. Ultimately, I needed to go to God directly.

Eventually I hit a point where I just wanted to trust what Christ did instead of listening to all the voices around me. Again, I found myself in my room and said something to the effect, “Lord, thank you for showing me it’s not what I’ve done but what you did” this part may sound scammy, but immediately afterwards I felt my heat in my stomach and peace came over me. I was able to eat properly for the first time in a while without feeling sick to my stomach.

Since then I’ve continued in God’s word. The articles on this site have brought a lot of clarity. For example, I was already disillusioned with them but now I'm completely disgusted with Holidays like Christmas and Easter and don't celebrate them. I would've never known the truth about their origins unless I came to this site.

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I also wanted to add that I am thankful for Chris’s teaching on repentance. I’ve only recently fully understood repentance through reading his article and then checking it against the words of scripture. It's crazy how grief and godly sorrow is clearly taught throughout both the Old and New Testament but so many church buildings and individuals get it wrong. Even I had it wrong for a long time.

I’ll fully admit at times I still question the validity of my faith and feel the need to examine myself, but I believe I was saved in my late teens. I'd be happy to answer any questions and will actually have a website up soon that may end up giving a few more details. Thanks.

[Ellie]

Hi John,

I found your testimony interesting and enjoyable to read, and I'm glad you've introduced yourself to us at CLE. And it's good to know you're interested in being a member! I didn't grow up with much churchianity experience when I was young but got into it later on. I can relate to some of what you mentioned though.

-I also read extra biblical content like Sinners In the Hands of an Angry God, Jesus-is Savior.com, Ray Comfort’s Hell’s Best Kept Secret, and heard Paul Washer’s “Unpopular Youth Message”

I used to listen to Paul Washer after I was saved and I remember hearing that message. I didn't understand if I was saved yet (I didn't know what repentance was at the time, all the preachers I listened to preached works based repentance) but despite the leaven of Paul Washer, some of that definitely put more fear of God in me and I went over the scriptures he talked about in that sermon a lot after hearing it. I also used to listen to Ray Comfort's videos and I had a couple of his books on my kindle. I don't listen to them anymore because of their leaven and false doctrine specifically about salvation/repentance--that was the last straw for me once I read the truth about it here at CLE.

-I became undone after this. I couldn’t eat or sleep properly for at least a few weeks as I felt the hand of God heavy upon me. One night I couldn’t seem to fall asleep as I sincerely trembled knowing God could throw me into hell at any moment and be justified. I actually prayed, in my heart “please God, don’t let me die until I know I’m saved”

This is a far cry from how I used to view myself. I got an honesty award in 3rd grade and a Christian character award in 6th grade. Deep down I knew I didn’t deserve these awards and was battling sin even as a young teen, but to finally see myself as God saw me (a hell deserving sinner) was definitely eye opening and terrifying. Nothing mattered anymore except knowing that my sins were forgiven.

Ultimately, I hit a point where after reading the words of the publican. I went to my bedroom and asked God directly to have mercy on me, a sinner.

I understand what you mean about not being able to eat or sleep properly. I think that's the fear of God and when your eyes are opened to the depth of sin and wickedness in your own heart after believing in your own lies all your life, it's hard to go on normally right away. Going from utter blindness to being able to see God and your own filthiness is sobering.

I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes. -Job 42:5-6

Sadly, after this, I struggled for a long time regarding whether or not I was saved because there is so much confusion regarding how to be saved and how words are defined biblically.

 One teacher would correctly teach the law as the schoolmaster to Christ (which heavily convicted me) and then say repentance is a complete turning from sin and I needed to confess and to name the specific sins as a prerequisite for salvation (like Ray comfort). I didn't know if I had truly done what God asked of me and did not want to find out I was going to hell on Judgement Day.

Yep. I completely relate to that. When I was saved I listened to Paul Washer and some other preachers in his circle. People within that same clique who yoked together with each other. I appreciated their focus on the key verses about the law and false converts (like the parables), but their explanations of them only left me more confused and bothered than I was before. I questioned whether or not I did the "180 turn from sin" and how I could even know if I did that correctly. It goes back to the fact that they claim salvation is by faith alone, but yet they add works in a sly way while claiming that it's not by works. It just doesn't make sense, it is impossible to have both. This verse makes that perfectly clear, but they are blind to what they're saying and don't see the contradiction (because they have their faith in their works anyway).

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. - Romans 11:6

I also wanted to add that I am thankful for Chris’s teaching on repentance. I’ve only recently fully understood repentance through reading his article and then checking it against the words of scripture. It's crazy how grief and godly sorrow is clearly taught throughout both the Old and New Testament but so many church buildings and individuals get it wrong. Even I had it wrong for a long time.

I’ll fully admit at times I still question the validity of my faith and feel the need to examine myself, but I believe I was saved in my late teens. I'd be happy to answer any questions and will actually have a website up soon that may end up giving a few more details. Thanks.

Repentance is key and it helps so many other things in scripture make sense once you understand it.

I was curious what do you plan on using the website for? Would it be for casual blog type posts or something else? And also, how have your family/friends responded to the changes in your life since being saved?

Again, I enjoyed reading your testimony. Thanks for sharing! Hopefully you are edified by being among other Christians here.

[John93]

Hi Ellie! Nice to meet you.


Being a part of churchianity/church culture definitely lulled me into a false sense of security. I went to a Christian school (with chapel once a week), christian youth group up to once a week, church on sunday faithfully, and even had a deep respect for Jesus and the things of God.

Still, even after all that preaching, deep down, I was self righteous. I think a lot of people with my background can attest to having the attitude of "yeah I'm not the best person, but I'm not that bad --- and I like God/church stuff/my pastor, everything will work out" Probably the most dangerous place for a person to be-- that type of attitude basically mirrors the attitude of the Pharisees.



I was surprised to see even Paul Washer compromised, specifically when he partnered with Hillsong a while back. But he definitely got me to consider that I needed to look to God's standard, and not compare myself to others before I was saved. Sadly, most of the pastors/teachers I used to follow have compromised which has fully encouraged me to read scripture for myself and pray that God would give me discernment. 

I'll be using the website I've created to share my testimony (which I think might help some people who have dealt with issues similar to mine), and to clearly teach repentance and faith. I also want to expose much of the media--sports, video games, tv shows/movies. And ultimately point to Christ being important above all. Life is too short and hell is too hot, I have to speak up.

My family, and friends haven't taken well to the change at all. Even though I was saved in my teens, I didn't come to fully understand how much of popular Christianity (501c3 buildings, christian music/holidays) were wrong until pretty recently (now in my late 20s). So a lot of changes have been going on more recently that have affected the relationships in my life.

I've basically been called a cultist and religious extremist by some of family for simply teaching the words of Christ verbatim and calling them to repentance. Some family members think it's strange/too extreme that I no longer want to  celebrate the major holidays.

I also try not to listen to "christian" radio as they are all compromised, and threw out/deleted a lot of sinful, satanic music. I've tried to share the compromise of Christian music/radio, but no one has listened to me so far. Definitely a lonely path to walk.


On the friend side of things...I don't have many friends. But I recently told a close friend that Marvel/Disney are pushing antichrist/LGBT themes and I was no longer comfortable watching their movies, especially the new Dr. Strange with it's demonic themes. Never heard back from them to hang out (as expected).

Still, I think of 1 Peter 4:3-5:

For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:

Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

Nothing and nobody matters more than Christ. I knew that friendships might fade as a result of my convictions as the world hates Christ and his doctrine. I also have many other friends/family members/acquaintances where I know the relationship will dissolve completely if I call out their sin (and I have plans to at least share the truth in love with them). So I've essentially lost most/all friends and most of my family in terms of being close. On judgement day, it won't matter but again, it's a pretty lonely path.

Understanding repentance is definitely key. Once you understand both repentance and faith are a gift from God, you no longer have to live in the confusion of leavened preachers who try to turn repentance and faith into a work.

I've listened to a lot of Ray comfort's street interviews and in a lot of them, he makes it seem as though you have to stop sinning completely and essentially promise God to never sin again as a prerequisite for salvation. Lots of misinformation and heresy out there.

[creationliberty]

Most everyone else here has gone through the same process.

Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
-Luke 6:22

This is why I find it to be such hypocrisy that, in many church buildings, they sing about "counting the cost" and "following Jesus," but most of them have every really paid any price. They just go from secular things, to "Christianized" secular things, and they think they have made a huge change, using the church building and their customs as a symbol of "holiness."

It's not that I expect all Christians to depart from all these things before we can have fellowship, but how much time does it take before their philosophy (i.e. way of thinking) changes enough that they look on these movies, holidays, and music, and start to get sick to their stomachs. When Jesus Christ gave me understanding, over the course of years, things that would move me to tears or make me laugh, now makes me disgusted, so why is it, for people who are alleged veterans who have supposedly been saved many more years than I have, they cannot see these things?

I believe it comes down to repentance, and that they've never been given that, nor do they want it. Therefore, a foundation of true faith in Christ was never laid in their hearts. If you have someone who has been saved for many years, and there is so little humility that you can't even have a rational conversation with them about these subjects, there is a serious problem.

Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
-John 8:31

[John93]

Hi Chris! Apologies for the late reply.

What you mentioned in your post has been one of my concerns for the longest time. In Matthew 7:6, Christ said:

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

So I definitely know that there is a point where I could be wasting my breath with someone. But I haven't had many people lash out at me violently for telling them the truth, most conversations have seemed rational..they just don't listen in the end. For example, when I have tried to share with family and friends that CCM is corrupt, holidays are corrupt, and many of the false teachers they enjoy are corrupt, a lot of times they don't cut the conversation short...but as far as I remember, I've rarely if ever had the response of "wow, thank you for sharing that, I'll definitely take a look into that topic".

I'd say the majority of the time, nothing changes. I actually found out that a family member still donates to corrupt ministers even after I tried to lovingly show them how corrupt many ministers are..which leads me to believe that many of these people are false converts. I don't necessarily believe that just because someone doesn't listen to *me* the first time I discuss something with them, they're doomed. There have been times where God had to work on my heart. But to not even look into it after claiming to be "saved"..it just isn't a good sign.


Also, I've seen exactly what you're talking about, especially on social media. Many people's testimony just includes swapping their bar outings for a 501c3 church building..maybe switching their hip hop playlist for "Christian" hip hop music (for example). The churches aren't helping either as many times, they encourage CCM and don't teach the truth, all while singing about a Christ they essentially don't know.  For example, the church building that I went to for the majority of my life stopped preaching on sin regularly, started using the Billboard Top 50 "Christian" songs in "worship", and awkwardly started ending the service with a half hearted, "repeat after me" prayer without mentioning the law/sin, repentance, and faith in Christ.

[creationliberty]

I try not to jump to any conclusions because some people need time to think about things, and if someone immediately converted to my understanding just by my saying it, I wouldn't trust them because they make rash decisions. However, when they exhibit no desire to study to understand, then I know there is laziness and idolatry going on, and it shows me they have little love for the Lord Jesus Christ, though they give him lip service to deceive themselves and others.

The heart of the righteous studieth to answer: but the mouth of the wicked poureth out evil things.
-Pro 15:28

[Brian]

Thank you for sharing so much of your journey John. Since you had just replied to a separate post, I just realized I could find everyone's introductions under that link.  What part of Florida are you in?  I can relate to soooooooo much of your journey. I will say the Ray indirectly helped me learn how to approach people in a friendly manner and ask the key question that the young rich man asked Christ ... how to get to heaven.  I agree that he teaches works, and it nagged me. Chris' insights on repentance through godly sorrow has really helped. I hope to get to know you better.  Who knows, maybe we are even in the same area of FL.

For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. (KJV 2 Cor 7:10)