CLE Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Jephte21 on August 10, 2018, 06:09:00 AM
-
Did animals used to talk before the fall of man? if not, why didn't Adam and Eve find it not strange that a serpent was talking to them? I know that there are some animals like parrot that can talk by mimicking. But to find an animal that can speak intelligently on their own is not of this world. Maybe I'm wrong and animals used to talk in the garden of Eden and God change that after the fall, I don't know. What are you guys thoughts on this?
Your answer is appreciated.
-
I think this was a special case where an animal was ALLOWED to talk. In this case, it was Satan inhabiting the serpent that allowed it to talk.
In Numbers 22, God allowed Balaam's ass to talk, too, and Baalam doesn't seem to show any surprise that it can do so. He just answers it like it was the most natural thing in the world.
The Bible just seems to record events without showing much about the emotions/reactions of the people involved in the event. It does in some places, but not in others.
-
why didn't Adam and Eve find it not strange that a serpent was talking to them?
Could you show the Scripture that says they didn't?
-
I sometimes think people expect the Bible to read like a novel where we know what the characters are thinking/feeling all the time and that simply is not the case. While these are real characters and real events, we don't always get the level of detail we'd like in a good 'story.' God only tells us what is necessary to know, not what we'd like to know.
-
Numbers 22 Verse 28: And the Lord opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?
To me it Sounds like the animals have the ability to speak, but God closed their mouthes so that they are still below the fallen man.
Remember, Not the animals sinned (except maybe the serpent) but man did and due to His transgression the world and everything in it was cursed.
We are in this mess at our own fault and the animals are in this mess at our fault too, not their fault.
The whole creation is groaning.
-
There's still no Scriptural evidence one way or the other that animals ever had the natural ability to speak and be understood by people.
-
Why does everyone keep saying "it seems" or "to me," but they don't actually base it off of any verse of any kind? Is this out of some secret desire to want to live in a Narnian world? There is zero evidence, Biblical, historical, or physiological, to indicate the animals could communicate like people.
-
Why does everyone keep saying "it seems" or "to me," but they don't actually base it off of any verse of any kind? Is this out of some secret desire to want to live in a Narnian world? There is zero evidence, Biblical, historical, or physiological, to indicate the animals could communicate like people.
It is like Jeanne Said.
The Information we have is insufficient to find a clear answer.
My genuine question to you Chris ist wether it is wrong, to guess or have an opinion on or discuss the likelyhood of such a matter, where we simply don't know.
I mean I wouldn't argue that I could be wrong, and I think that it's nothing of any greater importance, just something that people for some weird reason find interesting.
Nobody would argue that before the Fall everything was better. Man was not corrupted, neither was the creation.
From before the flood we know that man did not age as fast we do and that they lived for over 900 years and there they were already corrupted.
So I think it is reasonable to believe that before the fall animals also used to be somehow better than they are today.
But you are right, we don't know in what way they were better than now.
So my question remains. Is it wrong or even sin to speculate about some things that we do not know or understand?
-
So my question remains. Is it wrong or even sin to speculate about some things that we do not know or understand?
And I guess my question would be, What's the point? We're never going to know one way or the other this side of eternity, so is it not a waste of time to discuss things that there is no evidence either for or against? It's impossible to even speculate what the world before the flood would have been like. Other than the fact that the fossils we find are much larger than any type of creature we see today, of course.
The only real evidence we have of the pre-flood world is the fossil record. Have you read the article on what the world might have been like with a pressurised oxygen atmosphere similar to what a hyperbaric oxygen chamber produces?
http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/preflood.php (http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/preflood.php)
-
Hi Jeanne,
I'm not Sure if I have read this particular article about the pre-flood world, but I have read an article and also watched a teaching about it in chris' YouTube Channel.
And of course I've watched tons of Videos from Kent Hovind.
So I know that you refer to the theory that the earth used to be enclosed in an ice canopy with pressure Air underneath that Had a Higher oxygen Level.
This theory is being backed by the findings of Amber with pressurized Air inclusions.
Even evolutionists so admit that at some Point in time the atmosphereic pressure must have been much higher than today. Otherwiese the dinosours would have needed much bigger lungs than what they found in their remains.
In my opinion the fossile record is Just evidence for different habitats of different organisms.
Those that dwell on the bottom of the oceans, have been Burrows in the deepest Lasers of mud.
Other stuff like logs and bark float in the water for a while, until they slowly sinkt to the bottom.
And creatures Like birds are so lightweight that they barely ever get burried unser a load of mud, that's why there are so few fossiles of them.
I guess Most of them will have drowned in the water and have float arround near the surface, until some fish ate them.
But again that's all speculation, too.
I have not been there when it happened and those who were there had focussed on other aspects of that flood.
We are simply interpreting the leftovers on the basis of our own experiences and understanding of the basic sciences like physics and chemistry.
But Things May have been was different.
We have an all-powerful God who can make things happen way beyond our immagination.
Is it pointless to speculate about it?
And where can we draw the line for pointless?
I guess it's just in our nature to want to have explanations for Things that we can't fully understand or know.
A lot of people love animals.
I like animals, too. I like them fried, cooked, stewed, smoked or grilled ;-) and I must admit that some animals are kind of cute, too.
I don't think that I would want them to talk to me, at least not in this fallen world, because that would probably make it a lot more difficult to enjoy my favorite meals. But it is without doubt possible that they might have had this ability when god created them. At least as far as I know the bible doesn't say they had not.
Would I create some kind of doctrine out of it?
Of course not! But can we reason about what might be in the realm of possible?
Wether it's pointless or not, that's what most people do anyway.
And sometimes we may look into the bible because we were thinking about something totally pointless, but then we find ourselves being Led to dealing with a completely different topic that is not pointless any more.
When have you thought about something pointless for the last time?
-
Even without hyperbaric oxygen some of these guys must have been really big and because exaggeration is a form of lying this size relative to cedar trees must be quite correct.
Amos 2:9 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
Yet destroyed I the Amorite before them,
whose height was like the height of the cedars,
and he was strong as the oaks;
yet I destroyed his fruit from above,
and his roots from beneath.
Because they were breathing the same air as the Israelites their great stature must have been due to their genetics. A bit off the track from talking animals but interesting all the same.
-
Of course it is due to genetics. I mean Bugs and R
-
I wasn't disagreeing in any way, I'm in full agreement. :) I just had to throw this in there out of interest on the topic.
-
I wonder why this one got cut off..
"rodents" doesn't have an apostrophe...
Anyway I forgot what my point was :-)
-
I wondered about what 'Bugs and R' was. All I could think of was Bugs Bunny and Roadrunner...
-
Yeah, I wanted to say that bugs and rodents breathe the same air as we do and they are a lot smaller than we are.
Of course every creature has it's built in limits, but the atmosphere can be a limiting factor as well.
I wonder what our bodies would be capable of in regards to strength and speed If we were living under pre-flood conditions.
I actually wouldn't wonder If some of the elites might have facilities with pre-flood conditions to spend their time in..
-
why didn't Adam and Eve find it not strange that a serpent was talking to them?
Could you show the Scripture that says they didn't?
I don't know if they did find it strange or not because the Bible is silent on the matter. Sorry if my question doesn't make a lot of sense. I just find myself speculating about talking animals the other day, and I thought why not ask you guys the question maybe you might have some answer.