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143
Wild Emails @ CLE / Pastor Extorting For Money (Chad Wagner)
« on: February 10, 2022, 10:31:31 AM »
So I got a mass spam email the other day from a pastor who was trying to ramp up his book sales. Now, as you are going to see, I made the mistake of accusing him of only charging for his book. I could not find a place to check it out on his site. After the second letter, I tried it again, and it turns out that you could read it for free on his site, but he made it pretty hard to find. (I think part of it is that his website seems a bit unorganized and confusing to navigate.) However, he teaches people the false doctrine of "storehouse tithing," which means he is extorting churchgoers for money. Here is the exchange; I thought you all might like to see this, and I'll make some comments afterwards on it so you can get some more details.
CHAD WAGNER, PASTOR OF EXCELSIOR SPRINGS CHURCH IN MISSOURI
Dear friends and family,
After nearly five years I have finally published Volume 3 of my commentary series on the book of Proverbs called, "Get Wisdom, Get Understanding." This book is my commentary on Proverbs chapter 3.
It is available on Amazon in hardback, paperback, and Kindle.
You can learn more about it and read reviews here if you're interested: Get Wisdom, Get Understanding, Vol. 3.
Please feel free to share it with others who you think would appreciate it.
I hope it's a blessing to you.
(((SEE ATTACHMENT 1)))
Chad Wagner
Pastor, Excelsior Springs Church
Excelsior Springs, MO
www.PastorWagner.com
www.KJVChurch.com
Hello Chad.
I had to look up your name in my archives because I have no idea how you got my email address. My archives indicate you last emailed me in 2014, 8 years ago. As far as I know, I have not received anything from you since. I also did not sign up for any newsletters from you. This means that you simply sent out a mass email for people to buy your book, and this is likely something new you are trying because you are sending notifications of "Vol.3," which means your book sales probably aren't doing as well as you had hoped.
My email address is for ministry purposes, not so you can send out ads to increase your books sales, and frankly, I find it personally insulting that you would even attempt that. I offer all my books free-to-read on my website (people are welcome to print them out and share them if they want), and I have my own commentaries on various books of the Bible which are all FREE because:
Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.
-Proverbs 23:23
Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
-Mat 10:8
So just to clarify, you need to take me off your mailing list or I will block your email address (as I stated on my website's contact page), and also, you should be ashamed of yourself, but I know you will not be, especially since, after a brief look at your website, I saw a number of corrupt doctrines you teach (like on tithe, just for one example, which didn't surprise me), which means you are leavened, and therefore, I am quite certain you will reject any shame for what you're doing.
Your false doctrine, which presumably comes from your corrupt books:
https://kjvchurch.com/proverbs-3-9/
Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
-Isa 56:11
Biblical answers for born again Christians to counter preachers of greed, like yourself:
Tithe is Not a Christian Requirement
For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
-Titus 1:10-13
That being said, I hope that the Lord God will show you and your family as much mercy as He has shown me and mine, and I hope you have a great day.
You hypocrite. I just checked, and a bunch of your books are on Amazon for sale. All of my published books are available for free on our church website too, either in blogs or PDFs.
You have a donate button on your website and in the signature of your email. You hypocrite.
What percentage of your income do you give to the Lord? Please give me your Biblical justification for giving that percentage to God.
All of my published books are available for free on our church website too, either in blogs or PDFs.
Then I apologize for falsely accusing you of not making your materials available for free. I didn't see a place on your site where one could read that, and perhaps I did not search deep enough on your site. However, you are trying to advertise to my ministry's email, which I do not appreciate (and you had no remorse for, nor did you respond to), and it's clear that you're angry that I caught you in what you were doing (i.e. trying boost your book sales) because I have a question for you: Did you include a link in your email to read your book for free on your website? Of course, you and I both know you didn't, and we both know WHY you did not include those details. It has nothing to do with helping people "get wisdom," and everything to do with increasing your book sales, which was the purpose of your spam mail. So, take me off your mailing list, or I will block your email address. It's that simple.
You hypocrite. I just checked, and a bunch of your books are on Amazon for sale.
You were not accused of leaven for selling a book. You need to learn to slow down and READ what people are writing. Yes, anyone can order my books on Amazon for those who want a physical copy, but if you would read carefully on my store page, there is a link to read the book right underneath the title. Since you did not bother to read what was on the store page on my site, I will provide a screen shot for you:
(((SEE ATTACHMENT #2)))
As a side note, it was not easy to find the links to read your books on your site. You have to swim through all the "buy here" and "get discounts" buttons and links to find the place where you can go read them. That's why I didn't find it the first time because your "Vol.3" book links take users to the Amazon store, and that's all I saw the first time, that's all most people will see when they look at it, and I'm pretty sure you know that.
You have a donate button on your website and in the signature of your email. You hypocrite.
Of course I accept donations to this ministry. Have you lost your mind? No one accused you of leaven for accepting donations, but you were accused of being leavened for telling people they are robbing God if they don't pay you money. Now, THAT is a hypocrite. Remember, you are going to be held accountable for everything you say here, and on your site:
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
-Mat 12:36
You have a document on your website called "Giving to God." These appear to be your notes of your preaching. Here is what you wrote in that document:
"Christians are required to support their pastor financially."
"Don't simply give the pastor your spare change if you happen to have any that day."
"When we fail to give to God, we are robbing Him"
"When people rob God, they are cursed for it"
https://kjvchurch.com/files/Giving%20to%20God_0.doc
So you threaten born again saints, telling them that God is going to curse them (based on the illusion of a commandment that does not exist in the New Testament for the church) if they do not give YOU money, which is a form of coercion, and then turn around, and accuse me of being a hypocrite for accepting donations freely by the charity from those who (by their own liberty) choose to give because they appreciate the work I'm doing. Unbelievable. Has lifting yourself up as a so-called "pastor" blinded your eyes to that degree?
And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?
-Luke 6:39
What percentage of your income do you give to the Lord?
This is fascinating, and I'm glad you wrote me this letter because now I know to stay FAR away from you and your corrupt doctrine. I don't have to use this verse very often, but it's appropriate here:
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
-Matthew 7:5
I don't believe you have much fear of God, and I'll show you why. Here is the statement you made from the "Giving to God" document:
"That percentage should be laid back in store (saved) and then we should give to the Lord (to people in need and to the ministry) out of that fund."
The place where we agree would be to give to people in need. For example, an evangelist who is preaching the Gospel that needs to provide for his family while he works--that is a person in need. (Despite what you might want to believe.) The poor, needy, orphans, and widows are likewise people in need. Thus, giving to any of them, is the same as giving to God, as Jesus Christ testifies in Matthew 25.
However, where we disagree is where you included "to the ministry," by which, you actually mean giving to YOU because YOU said:
"Christians are required to support their pastor financially."
Myself and my ministry and one are the same because I'm working my ministry, and I do this by myself. However, that's not how you defined these things. This is one of the more shady, despicable things I have seen a self-proclaimed "pastor" attempt to do. Your question was designed to puff yourself up, just like the Pharisee standing at the front of the temple:
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
-Luke 18:9-12
Look, there is no problem with you making a living from your work. You should. However, you hate the fact that you are being rebuked on your false doctrines because you hate correction:
Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.
-Proverbs 15:10
There is no requirement in the New Testament to give a specific percentage, and you probably know that, but you hide the truth in unrighteousness because of your greed:
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
-Romans 1:18
Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
-Isa 56:11
It is amazing that you have defined "giving to the Lord" as "giving to Chad," without saying that directly, but I caught it. You can tell by the way you define your title of rank apart from those who are in need, and also that your "pastor income" is separate from the "church fund," which is laughable because you and I both know that's not true:
"Give to godly purposes from that account or shoebox (your pastor, church fund, the poor, etc.)."
So essentially, according to Chad, the only way anyone can fully and completely "give to God" is to pay YOU. (i.e. Not "give" in charity, because there is no gift if you are required to pay.) You even state in your "Giving to God" teaching that a pastor must also tithe, but where does his tithe money go? Right back into his own pocket. (i.e. It's a facade.) Thus, not only are your questions invasive (i.e. I wouldn't ask you what you give, or to who you give, because it's none of my business), but you wrote that to try and make yourself look good on the outside of the cup, in which you attempt to justify your corrupt doctrine with money, or in other words, you believe in your heart that your inner "goodness" is tied to what percentage of the income you give to someone (which comes from the money you extort from unsuspecting churchgoers), while I teach that no Christian has any obligation to give me anything, that they are free to do what they will in charity with what they have be given by the Lord Jesus Christ, and that I know that my inner goodness doesn't exist--it is only imputed to me by the Lord Jesus Christ.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
-Matthew 23:25
Please give me your Biblical justification for giving that percentage to God.
Here's my justification. All my charity and goodness hangs on this:
And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
-Romans 4:22-25
If you want a different answer according to your corrupt doctrines on your "storehouse tithing" coercion/extortion, then I will give you that justification when you send me God's address. I'll wait for your response on that.
I know you're used to using these sleight-of-hand techniques on undiscerning churchgoers, but you are talking with someone who understands the Scripture, can expose your false doctrine, and knows your scam. You will not get away with that garbage when you stand before God one day, and I have no problem calling out your hypocrisy, contradictions, and corruptions because I hate seeing leavened preachers like you take advantage of poor, hard-working people, while you peddle the holy name of Christ in your shame.
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
-Mark 7:13
I still hope you and your family have a pleasant evening, and despite your deceptions, I still pray the Lord Jesus Christ will continue to provide mercies in your household during the upcoming rough months in America.
Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
-1 Peter 3:9
END OF DISCUSSION
He probably will not even read this, let alone respond to it, but if he does, I might include it in a comment below.
CHAD WAGNER, PASTOR OF EXCELSIOR SPRINGS CHURCH IN MISSOURI
Dear friends and family,
After nearly five years I have finally published Volume 3 of my commentary series on the book of Proverbs called, "Get Wisdom, Get Understanding." This book is my commentary on Proverbs chapter 3.
It is available on Amazon in hardback, paperback, and Kindle.
You can learn more about it and read reviews here if you're interested: Get Wisdom, Get Understanding, Vol. 3.
Please feel free to share it with others who you think would appreciate it.
I hope it's a blessing to you.
(((SEE ATTACHMENT 1)))
Chad Wagner
Pastor, Excelsior Springs Church
Excelsior Springs, MO
www.PastorWagner.com
www.KJVChurch.com
Hello Chad.
I had to look up your name in my archives because I have no idea how you got my email address. My archives indicate you last emailed me in 2014, 8 years ago. As far as I know, I have not received anything from you since. I also did not sign up for any newsletters from you. This means that you simply sent out a mass email for people to buy your book, and this is likely something new you are trying because you are sending notifications of "Vol.3," which means your book sales probably aren't doing as well as you had hoped.
My email address is for ministry purposes, not so you can send out ads to increase your books sales, and frankly, I find it personally insulting that you would even attempt that. I offer all my books free-to-read on my website (people are welcome to print them out and share them if they want), and I have my own commentaries on various books of the Bible which are all FREE because:
Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.
-Proverbs 23:23
Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
-Mat 10:8
So just to clarify, you need to take me off your mailing list or I will block your email address (as I stated on my website's contact page), and also, you should be ashamed of yourself, but I know you will not be, especially since, after a brief look at your website, I saw a number of corrupt doctrines you teach (like on tithe, just for one example, which didn't surprise me), which means you are leavened, and therefore, I am quite certain you will reject any shame for what you're doing.
Your false doctrine, which presumably comes from your corrupt books:
https://kjvchurch.com/proverbs-3-9/
Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
-Isa 56:11
Biblical answers for born again Christians to counter preachers of greed, like yourself:
Tithe is Not a Christian Requirement
For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
-Titus 1:10-13
That being said, I hope that the Lord God will show you and your family as much mercy as He has shown me and mine, and I hope you have a great day.
You hypocrite. I just checked, and a bunch of your books are on Amazon for sale. All of my published books are available for free on our church website too, either in blogs or PDFs.
You have a donate button on your website and in the signature of your email. You hypocrite.
What percentage of your income do you give to the Lord? Please give me your Biblical justification for giving that percentage to God.
All of my published books are available for free on our church website too, either in blogs or PDFs.
Then I apologize for falsely accusing you of not making your materials available for free. I didn't see a place on your site where one could read that, and perhaps I did not search deep enough on your site. However, you are trying to advertise to my ministry's email, which I do not appreciate (and you had no remorse for, nor did you respond to), and it's clear that you're angry that I caught you in what you were doing (i.e. trying boost your book sales) because I have a question for you: Did you include a link in your email to read your book for free on your website? Of course, you and I both know you didn't, and we both know WHY you did not include those details. It has nothing to do with helping people "get wisdom," and everything to do with increasing your book sales, which was the purpose of your spam mail. So, take me off your mailing list, or I will block your email address. It's that simple.
You hypocrite. I just checked, and a bunch of your books are on Amazon for sale.
You were not accused of leaven for selling a book. You need to learn to slow down and READ what people are writing. Yes, anyone can order my books on Amazon for those who want a physical copy, but if you would read carefully on my store page, there is a link to read the book right underneath the title. Since you did not bother to read what was on the store page on my site, I will provide a screen shot for you:
(((SEE ATTACHMENT #2)))
As a side note, it was not easy to find the links to read your books on your site. You have to swim through all the "buy here" and "get discounts" buttons and links to find the place where you can go read them. That's why I didn't find it the first time because your "Vol.3" book links take users to the Amazon store, and that's all I saw the first time, that's all most people will see when they look at it, and I'm pretty sure you know that.
You have a donate button on your website and in the signature of your email. You hypocrite.
Of course I accept donations to this ministry. Have you lost your mind? No one accused you of leaven for accepting donations, but you were accused of being leavened for telling people they are robbing God if they don't pay you money. Now, THAT is a hypocrite. Remember, you are going to be held accountable for everything you say here, and on your site:
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
-Mat 12:36
You have a document on your website called "Giving to God." These appear to be your notes of your preaching. Here is what you wrote in that document:
"Christians are required to support their pastor financially."
"Don't simply give the pastor your spare change if you happen to have any that day."
"When we fail to give to God, we are robbing Him"
"When people rob God, they are cursed for it"
https://kjvchurch.com/files/Giving%20to%20God_0.doc
So you threaten born again saints, telling them that God is going to curse them (based on the illusion of a commandment that does not exist in the New Testament for the church) if they do not give YOU money, which is a form of coercion, and then turn around, and accuse me of being a hypocrite for accepting donations freely by the charity from those who (by their own liberty) choose to give because they appreciate the work I'm doing. Unbelievable. Has lifting yourself up as a so-called "pastor" blinded your eyes to that degree?
And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?
-Luke 6:39
What percentage of your income do you give to the Lord?
This is fascinating, and I'm glad you wrote me this letter because now I know to stay FAR away from you and your corrupt doctrine. I don't have to use this verse very often, but it's appropriate here:
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
-Matthew 7:5
I don't believe you have much fear of God, and I'll show you why. Here is the statement you made from the "Giving to God" document:
"That percentage should be laid back in store (saved) and then we should give to the Lord (to people in need and to the ministry) out of that fund."
The place where we agree would be to give to people in need. For example, an evangelist who is preaching the Gospel that needs to provide for his family while he works--that is a person in need. (Despite what you might want to believe.) The poor, needy, orphans, and widows are likewise people in need. Thus, giving to any of them, is the same as giving to God, as Jesus Christ testifies in Matthew 25.
However, where we disagree is where you included "to the ministry," by which, you actually mean giving to YOU because YOU said:
"Christians are required to support their pastor financially."
Myself and my ministry and one are the same because I'm working my ministry, and I do this by myself. However, that's not how you defined these things. This is one of the more shady, despicable things I have seen a self-proclaimed "pastor" attempt to do. Your question was designed to puff yourself up, just like the Pharisee standing at the front of the temple:
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
-Luke 18:9-12
Look, there is no problem with you making a living from your work. You should. However, you hate the fact that you are being rebuked on your false doctrines because you hate correction:
Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.
-Proverbs 15:10
There is no requirement in the New Testament to give a specific percentage, and you probably know that, but you hide the truth in unrighteousness because of your greed:
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
-Romans 1:18
Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
-Isa 56:11
It is amazing that you have defined "giving to the Lord" as "giving to Chad," without saying that directly, but I caught it. You can tell by the way you define your title of rank apart from those who are in need, and also that your "pastor income" is separate from the "church fund," which is laughable because you and I both know that's not true:
"Give to godly purposes from that account or shoebox (your pastor, church fund, the poor, etc.)."
So essentially, according to Chad, the only way anyone can fully and completely "give to God" is to pay YOU. (i.e. Not "give" in charity, because there is no gift if you are required to pay.) You even state in your "Giving to God" teaching that a pastor must also tithe, but where does his tithe money go? Right back into his own pocket. (i.e. It's a facade.) Thus, not only are your questions invasive (i.e. I wouldn't ask you what you give, or to who you give, because it's none of my business), but you wrote that to try and make yourself look good on the outside of the cup, in which you attempt to justify your corrupt doctrine with money, or in other words, you believe in your heart that your inner "goodness" is tied to what percentage of the income you give to someone (which comes from the money you extort from unsuspecting churchgoers), while I teach that no Christian has any obligation to give me anything, that they are free to do what they will in charity with what they have be given by the Lord Jesus Christ, and that I know that my inner goodness doesn't exist--it is only imputed to me by the Lord Jesus Christ.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
-Matthew 23:25
Please give me your Biblical justification for giving that percentage to God.
Here's my justification. All my charity and goodness hangs on this:
And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
-Romans 4:22-25
If you want a different answer according to your corrupt doctrines on your "storehouse tithing" coercion/extortion, then I will give you that justification when you send me God's address. I'll wait for your response on that.
I know you're used to using these sleight-of-hand techniques on undiscerning churchgoers, but you are talking with someone who understands the Scripture, can expose your false doctrine, and knows your scam. You will not get away with that garbage when you stand before God one day, and I have no problem calling out your hypocrisy, contradictions, and corruptions because I hate seeing leavened preachers like you take advantage of poor, hard-working people, while you peddle the holy name of Christ in your shame.
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
-Mark 7:13
I still hope you and your family have a pleasant evening, and despite your deceptions, I still pray the Lord Jesus Christ will continue to provide mercies in your household during the upcoming rough months in America.
Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
-1 Peter 3:9
END OF DISCUSSION
He probably will not even read this, let alone respond to it, but if he does, I might include it in a comment below.
144
What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p33
« on: February 07, 2022, 03:51:26 PM »145
What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p32
« on: January 31, 2022, 01:34:35 PM »146
What's New @ CLE / (ARTICLE) Hell Is Real And Many People Are Going There
« on: January 28, 2022, 02:03:28 PM »
I have rewritten this again, and added in a lot more information. This time around, I included information on "hell visions" since I have had enough of people sending me emails and books on the subject. The "hell vision" false prophets are simply trying to make money and get viewers through sensationalism, and everyone of them I have investigated teaches a wide variety of heresies on top of it.
http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/hell.php
http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/hell.php
147
What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p31
« on: January 24, 2022, 12:37:27 PM »148
Wild Emails @ CLE / Trying to Rip Up the Bible (Telegram)
« on: January 20, 2022, 03:53:28 PM »Jan 20th, 2022 - TELEGRAM
WENDY ROGERS: Can’t we all just get along? Sure. Repent and be baptized and join America First.
It has been a VERY long time since I was able to say "Amen" to anything a state official has said. I can agree with this. I just hope that Wendy and everyone else here understands the real, Biblical meaning of repentance, and not the false, works-based definition that many corrupt preachers are teaching in church buildings.
If anyone does not understand it, go to creationliberty * com, type in 'million' in the search bar, and read Why Millions of Believers on Jesus Are Going to Hell. That'll get you the details on the true Gospel of Salvation.
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. MANY will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
-Mat 7:21-23
The following responses are from someone identifying himself as "Parker"
I appreciate what you are doing. Important distinction- In Matthew 7, and in fact all of Matthew up until Chapter 26 verse 26, Jesus is addressing Israel. The Sermon on the mount, while containing many good principles for righteous living, is not addressed to the Church. The church didn’t exist yet. The Kingdom was at hand still, meaning the offer to bring in the kingdom was active and on the table. Jesus was preaching the kingdom to Israel in preparation of offering it to them (Matthew 21). Its isn’t until AFTER Israel fails to recognize Him as their Messiah (Matthew 21:11) and He is rejected by the religious-political leadership (Matthew 21:15) that He began preaching the DELAY of the kingdom.
So, Jesus demonstrates Himself qualified to be King, fulfills all Kingly requirements, teaches about the Kingdom, and then formally offers Himself to Israel as King.
Israel rejects the offer, thereby preventing the Kingdom from coming (just as the prophecies foretold) and Jesus immediately begins teaching that the Kingdom will be coming after some time and will be given to a different generation. And the mechanism through which it will be attained will be the eventual acceptance of the New Covenant.
But… still not talking about the church. It’s a future generation of National Israel that will all be saved (Jeremiah 30:7, Romans 11:26) and receive the fulfillment of the kingdom covenant promised to Abraham (Deuteronomy 30:2-6) when they cry out to Jesus upon recognizing that He is their King (Matthew 23:38-39).
So, because the church and therefore Christians are not the context of Matthew 7, this is not a teaching about how to be saved. Rather the context is how to recognize false teachers and false prophets. Jesus was giving a criteria of how to distinguish the genuine thing from the imposters. Prophesying, miracles and casting out demons are NOT necessarily indications that a person is a genuine teacher or prophet.
That’s said, there will certainly be many church-age believers who held to a works-based salvation which prevented them from truly accepting the gift of God through the sufficiency of Christ’s atoning work on the cross through faith ALONE. But that can be demonstrated thoroughly with other passages in which salvation by grace alone through faith alone are the context. Matthew 7 just isn’t one of those.
I know you think you understand what you are saying, but that is incorrect doctrine that someone has taught you along the way, and you're spreading that error, which is worse. For example, Hebrews was written to... you guessed it... the Hebrew people. However, that is where we get this verse:
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
-Hebrews 10:25
Now, if you are going to be consistent in your belief, namely, "that which is preached to the Israel is not meant for the church," then you need to start telling people that the church does not need to assemble together. Of course, I know you won't do that because it won't look good on you, but that means you need to either confess the error of your words, or you will be found to be a hypocrite who says one thing and does another.
Furthermore, the entirety of the Gospels was preached to Israel. That means, if you were consistent in your teaching, you would have to throw out the Great Commandment because Jesus preached that to the Sadducees and Pharisees:
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
-Matthew 22:37-40
But we who study and understand the Scriptures know that the Gospel is to be preached first to the Jews, and then to the Gentiles:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
-Luke 24:47
So just in the first few sentences you wrote, you have preached AGAINST the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If you are of Christ, you should repent (i.e. have godly sorrow of wrongdoing), and sanctify yourself (i.e. depart from) those who taught you that error. If you will not listen, I hope that helps someone else who reads this. Have a great day.
Your basic assertion about the book of Hebrews is wrong.
It was written to Hebrew CHRISTIANS. So the context is for Jewish converts to Christianity to understand the implications of the New Covenant in light of their understanding of the law and prophets. Since they are part of the “new man”, the body of Christ, they needed help in understanding how that is different than being of the law.
That’s actually a very basic error you are making, there. Don’t you see how simple it is that Hebrews was written to the Hebrew Christian’s and therefore applies to… Christians?
Interesting. So I gave you two examples from different sections of the Bible (both before and after the founding of the church), and you chose to hone in on the one you thought would give you best way to save face. You should be ashamed of yourself. I could have given you MANY more examples than that, but I chose those couple to see what you would do, and you did that which was deceitful.
Just because you do not want to acknowledge the truth of repentance (i.e. grief and godly sorrow of one's sin), doesn't mean that others don't need to hear it, and I'm going to keep telling them the truth, whether you like it or not.
Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
-1Ti 5:20
Have a great day.
Do you hear yourself? You are making accusations against people based on your understanding of scripture, which I am showing you has some problems. Calling names and being aggressive with people you don’t even know. That’s not the biblically prescribed way for believers to behave at all.
I addressed the first passage you submitted, which is a very natural thing to do to address things sequentially. Your view on Hebrews is so flawed that I didn’t think it necessary to address the other two passages.
I’m happy to discuss Matthew 22 and/or Luke 24. Are you willing to acknowledge that you made an incorrect claim about the context of Hebrews, though?
Because dude, you are way off on that one. So much so that it heavily strengthens my argument and weakens yours. If you can’t see that, then it’s probably not going to be helpful to discuss the other two with you. Though I’m still happy to do it.
But you need re-examine this ridiculous tactic of calling people hypocrites and false teachers and accusing people of being against Christ. That’s not how the church is to act. We to correct each other in love, and use scripture to guide one another into a better understanding.
Do you hear yourself? — Certainly. I can also read what another person is saying. It would be great if you could try that out because it would help this process go much smoother.
You are making accusations against people based on your understanding of scripture, which I am showing you has some problems. — No, you ignored the arguments I made. I am fully aware that the Hebrews in the book of Hebrews were the Christians in the church, but you will not admit your contradiction. There's not much more I can do for you to help you see it because this format isn't suitable for it.
I addressed the first passage you submitted, which is a very natural thing to do to address things sequentially. Your view on Hebrews is so flawed that I didn’t think it necessary to address the other two passages. — I never claimed that the Hebrews being spoken to were not Christians. Maybe you should go back and read it again.
Calling names and being aggressive with people you don’t even know. That’s not the biblically prescribed way for believers to behave at all. — Wow. According to your beliefs, it must have been unbiblical when Jesus called false teachers hypocrites, vipers, and whited tombs. It must have been unbiblical when he whipped the money changers and knocked over their tables. I thought I was being peaceful in comparison. You should let Christ know he's not acting very Christ-like.
I’m happy to discuss Matthew 22 and/or Luke 24. Are you willing to acknowledge that you made an incorrect claim about the context of Hebrews, though? — What incorrect claim? Please try to read what people are writing to you. I NEVER claimed that the church was not being spoken to. I said the Hebrews were being spoken to, whether they were Christian or not. You made up strawman arguments, and refused to acknowledge your error. Again, you're wasting my time because you're not having a discussion with me because you will not acknowledge the things I am writing to you. I have other work to do, so if you don't want to acknowledge the points I made, then I'll bid you a good day, and be on my way.
So much so that it heavily strengthens my argument and weakens yours. — Self-promotion is not an argument. I really don't have time for that.
But you need re-examine this ridiculous tactic of calling people hypocrites and false teachers and accusing people of being against Christ. That’s not how the church is to act. — Look, it didn't take long reading your posts to see that you care more about the tradition you have learned than you care about Scripture. It was very easy to see, and there's tons of reasons for that I don't have space for in this post. I will, however, try to help for sake of anyone else reading this:
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. -Acts 20:29-31
I can't post links here, so I cannot give you more, otherwise I could show you full commentaries I've written on the books of Corinthians where, for example, Paul had to deal with false teachers and called them out. He did this a lot, and most of Jesus's preaching was about false converts. So please, go to God, and tell him all the problems you have with His Word, and that He does not handle matters according to your personal preferences. I need to get back to work. Have a great day, and I hope you depart in peace.
We to correct each other in love, and use scripture to guide one another into a better understanding. — There's nothing more loving than the truth, even if the person's feelings get hurt in the process. The truth is that your belief is an insurance policy for you, so when you find something in the New Testament you disagree with, you can say "that was for the Jews." I've been working in ministry for many years. This isn't my first interaction with people who reject repentance and talk like you do.
But you aren’t teaching the truth. You are wrong. You don’t understand something as fundamental as who the letter to the Hebrews was written to. And instead of acknowledging that, you double down on accusing me of being against Christ.
You’re doing it wrong.
Hebrews is written to the Church. Yes or no?
I answered that in the last response I gave to you. Thus, you just proved to me that you're not reading my posts. I'm sorry, but I have a lot of work to do, and I cannot have you wasting my time because you don't want to read.
I pray the Lord Jesus Christ would bless you and your family with all your needs throughout the coming rough months, and I pray that He has as much mercy on you and your family as He has had on me and mine.
Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
-1Pe 3:9
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
-1Co 2:14
You did not address that.
Here is what you originally wrote:
“For example, Hebrews was written to... you guessed it... the Hebrew people. However, that is where we get this verse:
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
-Hebrews 10:25
Now, if you are going to be consistent in your belief, namely, "that which is preached to the Israel is not meant for the church," then you need to start telling people that the church does not need to assemble together…”
There it is. First you say Hebrews is written to the Hebrew people. You stop short of saying “Hebrew CONVERTS to Christianity.”
You do this as a straw man, because you claim my argument is “that which is preached to Israel is not meant for the church.” Which is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that the program changed at the point the New Covenant was offered, and you are injecting a context to Mathew 7 that isn’t in the text.
The context of Mathew 7 is quite clearly how to distinguish between false teachers and prophets, and genuine ones. It is not about the Church-age Christian assessing themselves on the authenticity of their faith.
So the implication you make is that I am wrong because my position would necessitate that I disregard the instruction to the Hebrew Christians as being for the church. It’s a completely absurd claim on your part. It in no way refutes the position I am putting forward and in fact it strengthens it.
“…Of course, I know you won't do that because it won't look good on you, but that means you need to either confess the error of your words, or you will be found to be a hypocrite who says one thing and does another.”
Here you seem to be implying that salvation comes by faith AND “having godly sorrow of wrongdoing and sanctifying oneself”. Which sounds an awful lot like you’re making salvation CONDITIONAL on a particular emotional response to one’s sin.
That’s unbiblical. I think you are telling people if they don’t have a “godly sorrow” then they aren’t saved. Kinda like how the hyper charismatics say if you don’t speak in tongues you’re not saved.
Dude, a person who genuinely believes on the Lord Jesus, that His atoning work on the cross was sufficient for the complete justification of sins, and accepts that gift is saved. Period. Some will have a deeply profound sense of remorse over their sin (as I have), while others will acknowledge their sin and need for Jesus without that. But it is impossible to genuinely believe on Jesus without repenting, for to believe on Him for forgiveness means the acknowledgment that there is an offense needing to be forgiven.
Acts 16:30-33
“and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.”
Acts 16:30-33
John 5:24
““Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.”
John 5:24
I’m suspicious you might also interpret Matthew 25 as being to the Church.
“Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.””
Matthew 25:44-46
So if I don’t visit the “least of these” in prison, I will be cast into eternal punishment then?
END OF DISCUSSION
I'll comment more below. Comment as you see fit.
149
What's New @ CLE / A Few Social Media Website Updates
« on: January 20, 2022, 09:48:53 AM »
Today, I made a few changes to the website.
1. There is a new search bar. This new bar should be a bit faster than the old one. Also, the site search will no longer use Google -- it will now search creationliberty.com through DuckDuckGo.
2. There are now two Telegram buttons on the side. One will take you to the CLE Ministry Updates channel, which is a channel that does not have comments, and is purposed only to get information out about new ministry teachings and updates. The other button will take you to the CLE World News channel, where I post information on current events concerning what is going on in the current WW3 that we are in, which I created to make sure Christian families can stay up to date on what's happening, so they know best how to protect themselves and their homes.
3. This is not a change, but a notification. I have not fully decided what I am going to do yet, but there is one thing I know for certain--if it works well, and I suspect it will, then I will be joining Donald Trump's Truth Social media platform that is supposed to be coming out in about four weeks. (i.e. mid-Feb) There are many reasons I will be joining this, and I have heard that it will have a paid subscription, but that is fine with me; I'll pay the fee because it is going to be ad-free, completely secure from Deep State hacks, completely freedom of speech without censorship, and you all should be able to watch and listen without having to pay anything. Things could change in the future, so I'll update you all as I make decisions.
Also, I may be cutting out some social media I currently have on the site. There are some of them that are getting almost no traffic, so I may be dropping them to save myself time.
As it stands, I should be staying on Rumble, and the reason for that is because, as far as I understand it, Donald Trump's acquisition company purchased Rumble, and has been moving all of Rumble's servers from Canada to the U.S. in a secure location, which not only will mean Rumble will be faster and more secure, but it also means that it will be part of the Truth Social platform, and that should also mean that I will not have to do any video re-uploading, and that any of your Rumble subscriptions should be smoothly transferred in partnership with Truth Social.
We don't know how Truth Social is going to work yet, so all of this is subject to change. But I do hope you all like these new changes, and as far as I know, I will be sticking with Telegram, as it has become the first social media platform I actually like (it's fast, easy, uncensored, and the highest security social media platform out there right now), and I have been using it frequently, so if you want updates, download Telegram and join us.
1. There is a new search bar. This new bar should be a bit faster than the old one. Also, the site search will no longer use Google -- it will now search creationliberty.com through DuckDuckGo.
2. There are now two Telegram buttons on the side. One will take you to the CLE Ministry Updates channel, which is a channel that does not have comments, and is purposed only to get information out about new ministry teachings and updates. The other button will take you to the CLE World News channel, where I post information on current events concerning what is going on in the current WW3 that we are in, which I created to make sure Christian families can stay up to date on what's happening, so they know best how to protect themselves and their homes.
3. This is not a change, but a notification. I have not fully decided what I am going to do yet, but there is one thing I know for certain--if it works well, and I suspect it will, then I will be joining Donald Trump's Truth Social media platform that is supposed to be coming out in about four weeks. (i.e. mid-Feb) There are many reasons I will be joining this, and I have heard that it will have a paid subscription, but that is fine with me; I'll pay the fee because it is going to be ad-free, completely secure from Deep State hacks, completely freedom of speech without censorship, and you all should be able to watch and listen without having to pay anything. Things could change in the future, so I'll update you all as I make decisions.
Also, I may be cutting out some social media I currently have on the site. There are some of them that are getting almost no traffic, so I may be dropping them to save myself time.
As it stands, I should be staying on Rumble, and the reason for that is because, as far as I understand it, Donald Trump's acquisition company purchased Rumble, and has been moving all of Rumble's servers from Canada to the U.S. in a secure location, which not only will mean Rumble will be faster and more secure, but it also means that it will be part of the Truth Social platform, and that should also mean that I will not have to do any video re-uploading, and that any of your Rumble subscriptions should be smoothly transferred in partnership with Truth Social.
We don't know how Truth Social is going to work yet, so all of this is subject to change. But I do hope you all like these new changes, and as far as I know, I will be sticking with Telegram, as it has become the first social media platform I actually like (it's fast, easy, uncensored, and the highest security social media platform out there right now), and I have been using it frequently, so if you want updates, download Telegram and join us.
150
What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p30
« on: January 07, 2022, 03:30:35 PM »151
What's New @ CLE / (ARTICLE) Unbiblical Cop-outs 'Don't Judge Me!'
« on: December 30, 2021, 02:16:01 PM »
Unbiblical Cop-outs: 'Don't Judge Me!'
This teaching has been completely rewritten and greatly expanded. When going back through it, I actually enjoyed reading it. I usually don't like to go back through my own stuff, but I enjoyed this one. I know I have a biased opinion here, but I believe this is one of the more powerful teachings I've ever written. Decide for yourself.
This teaching has been completely rewritten and greatly expanded. When going back through it, I actually enjoyed reading it. I usually don't like to go back through my own stuff, but I enjoyed this one. I know I have a biased opinion here, but I believe this is one of the more powerful teachings I've ever written. Decide for yourself.
152
What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p29
« on: December 27, 2021, 03:18:06 PM »153
General Discussion / Exposing a Woman Named 'Madonna'
« on: December 21, 2021, 10:26:06 AM »
In Feb of 2020, a woman (who now lives in Florida) named Madonna joined our church, and in December of that same year, she left in anger before any of us had a chance to talk with her. Under normal circumstances, I would not be posting any of this information, but this woman has become so manipulative and vindictive, she has left me no choice. Last week, we found out that Madonna has been searching for contact information from new members to this forum, sneaking around to try and manipulate them against me personally before they have had a chance to converse with any of us.
I also recently found out that she has been successful in her endeavors to some degree, and that's why she keeps doing it. Since Madonna has attempted to do these things in secret, and she won't come forward with the truth of her actions, I'm now going to make them public for all to see. Hopefully, if anyone is contacted by this woman and is confused by her rhetoric, we can send them this link to clear up the matter. Whether or not any of you choose to listen to her is up to you, and we still wish you well if you choose to leave based on what she says, but I hope you'll read this first to make sure you get all facts.
Madonna did not come into the church by the normal means everyone else does, and I made the mistake of trying to be charitable to her because she claimed not to have much understanding with computers in her old age. This turned out to be false, but that is the way she manipulates people. She is elderly, but she knows how to use phones, Skype, and other programs well enough, and we now know she simply wanted to avoid having to join the church by having discussion with us first because she knows that likely would have revealed her for who she is.
Furthermore, when she joined, she expected to be treated as some sort of matriarch because she claims she was saved at the age of 12, which would mean that she had ALLEGEDLY been saved for about 50 years. However, the evidence of her salvation was lacking the more we talked with her. (i.e. Today, I do not believe she was ever born again in Christ.) Nonetheless, she wanted to be treated like she was the female bringer of wisdom to all the church, and when I would have to rebuke her on an almost weekly basis for bringing false information into the church, she did not like it.
I remember one example that I think will help give a good idea of what Madonna was doing during our weekly Skype calls in our church. I happened to mention "Where's Waldo?" (i.e. the children's book) in a joking manner concerning something we were talking about. Immediately upon saying this, Madonna tells everyone that it was a historical fact that "Where's Waldo" was created by the Jesuits to train children to hunt down Christians because "Waldo" was supposed to be representative of the "Waldensians." (i.e. the 15th century Christians who were being killed by the Catholic Church for preaching the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ)
At that point, I asked Madonna where she got that information from. She stuttered (as she normally does when she's called out on making up things from her imagination and treating them like they're facts), and then said she "couldn't remember." I took a few minutes and looked up a number of sources talking about the origin of "Where's Waldo?" and it turns out that it was created in the 20th century by an Australian man, and it was originally called "Where's Wally?" but was only changed to "Waldo" for marketing reasons when it came the U.S.
Whereas Madonna had no information or references for her statement, she then demanded to know where I got my information from. See the hypocrisy? She would do this almost every week with something, and it was always about Jesuit conspiracies.
Now, don't misunderstand; I believe the Jesuits are a secret cabal that do wicked things in the dark, and that is a conspiratorial organization by definition. However, to Madonna, EVERYTHING she disagreed with was a Jesuit conspiracy because she was one of those people who I would say treated her ideas about Jesuit conspiracies as if it were of equal importance to the Gospel of Salvation in Jesus Christ.
For example, one time, our church got to discussing the corruptions of Martin Luther because I had written an expose on the unbiblical nature of denominations, and Madonna immediately jumps in to defend Martin Luther, treating him with the same importance as if he were one of the 12 apostles of Jesus Christ. When I started to give her direct quotes from some of the wicked things that Martin Luther said, her response was to argue that all those bad things were inserted into history books by the Jesuits to make him look bad.
Knowing Madonna as I had come to know her, I knew she didn't have one tiny bit of evidence to her claim, she would always just state these things as fact, and then expected us to trust her feelings (i.e. because she is also one of those people who believe that her feelings are the equivalent of the Holy Ghost, which is a dangerous philosophy for many Scriptural reasons). So I asked her, "How do you know the Jesuits did not write in the good things about Martin Luther to deceive you?" Of course, as she normally does, she stutters because she got called out, and I remember, she paused for a moment, and then asked, "What?!" I repeated my question in more detail to try and help her understand because, if you claim that the Jesuits inserted information into historical records, then we can't trust ANY historical records, including the things that Madonna favors, or in other words, her way of thinking would not allow us to believe ANYTHING that was written throughout history, and so Madonna's personal feelings would become the ultimate decider of "truth" because she believes her feelings are the equivalent of the Holy Ghost.
So why did we put up with her in the church for so long? Charity and patience. That's why. And she took advantage of our good manners. It took me a few months to realize what was going on, but Madonna is extremely manipulative because she does something called "gaslighting." When Madonna was called out on the garbage she was spewing out of her mouth, she would push back with rapid fire questions that had nothing to do with the subject matter, in order to make you forget about the topic at hand, and then question your own sanity to wonder if you had any reasoning in the first place. She's very good at it, and if you don't stop her mouth when she starts doing it, she will manipulate you, and she was successful at doing it with about five other members of our church, who all left about the same time she did in December of 2020.
The next part of this story I will try to keep brief because there are a lot of details that would take too long to explain. Our church had a big event meetup. Many of us are online in different states and countries, so we had our first event to meetup together for a week at our home in Indiana (i.e. many of us had never met face to face). With the help of some of my family out here, we had places for everyone to stay, and were all ready to go, but behind our backs, Madonna (with the help of two women she manipulated) arranged an AirBnB house for her and the two women specifically (without contact any of the elders running the event), and that house they rented was located in Indianapolis, a two-hour round trip drive from our home. In case you don't understand, she and the other two women were traveling a two-hour round trip everyday throughout the week, and spending most of their time together by themselves, away from the rest of the church, at the AirBnB.
If any of you are asking yourselves why she would do this, or how that makes sense, please let us know if you figure it out because we're now a year later, and our church has STILL not been able to make sense of this. Skipping past a LOT of other weird things that went on, the bottom line was that there was gossip rumors going around based on this group (there were total of 4 women and 2 men where the problem was coming from), and Lorraine and I were working so hard with little sleep to feed and take care of 20 people in our church--I finally had had enough. The day before everyone left, I sat everyone down and just got everything off my chest. I was tired of the facade, so I called them all out in front of the church.
Madonna obviously took great offense to this, but she put on a show, a big act full of niceties, giving everyone hugs afterwards and acting like we had all worked things out. However, two days after everyone left, Madonna gets on Skype and starts sending us Scripture references that she claimed we all need to read. This was sent in a very vindictive manner, and the Scripture was not used for the purpose of our study and understanding, but she sent them to us in a vengeful manner like a back-handed slap. One of the elders in our church saw this, and gently asked her what this was all about? She would not respond. Within a few days, the four women left the church without EVER addressing the church as a whole over their grievances (and the two men did the same thing a few weeks later), while hypocritically accusing me of not following proper Biblical procedure, when I DID address the church as a whole multiple times, and the church knows this, and can testify to this fact.
Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
-Mat 18:15-17
NONE of the six people who left (which includes Madonna) did that. They all ignored the commandments of Christ while accusing me of refusing to do what they refused to do.
Madonna absolutely did not want to do this because she viewed herself as a "matriarch" of the church, and she believes she should not have to be held accountable for anything she says and does, and because I don't want to make this too long, I'm leaving out TONS of details that would make your head spin. However, I will leave that to the rest of the church who witnessed these things, as I will state in a moment.
This is a warning to new members to our forum, this woman might try to contact you and manipulate you. If you want to leave us and follow her, that's your decision, but whatever you decide to do, please keep studying Scripture and stay vigilant.
Madonna chose to start sneaking around, skulking in the darkness to try and manipulate people, so we're bringing her to the light now since she's too cowardly to come forward.
For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
-Eph 5:8-13
If any members of our church have had interaction with Madonna, and you would like to share your testimony (including any evidence, like direct quotes and screenshots of conversations you have had with her) feel free to do so. If there is anything I have said here that any of you remember, and you would like to confirm it and back up what I said, feel free to do that too; it helps when we back up each others' testimonies.
If anyone here has NOT had interaction with her, please do not comment because I don't want this thread to get jumbled. The purpose of this thread is to provide information so new members who are contacted by her can get all the facts and make their own decision about what they are reading.
If Madonna reads this, please know that God will judge all these matters, and all the hearts of men will be revealed for what they are, including yours, so it is important that you come to repentance and faith in Christ so you can be born again before it's too late.
I also recently found out that she has been successful in her endeavors to some degree, and that's why she keeps doing it. Since Madonna has attempted to do these things in secret, and she won't come forward with the truth of her actions, I'm now going to make them public for all to see. Hopefully, if anyone is contacted by this woman and is confused by her rhetoric, we can send them this link to clear up the matter. Whether or not any of you choose to listen to her is up to you, and we still wish you well if you choose to leave based on what she says, but I hope you'll read this first to make sure you get all facts.
Madonna did not come into the church by the normal means everyone else does, and I made the mistake of trying to be charitable to her because she claimed not to have much understanding with computers in her old age. This turned out to be false, but that is the way she manipulates people. She is elderly, but she knows how to use phones, Skype, and other programs well enough, and we now know she simply wanted to avoid having to join the church by having discussion with us first because she knows that likely would have revealed her for who she is.
Furthermore, when she joined, she expected to be treated as some sort of matriarch because she claims she was saved at the age of 12, which would mean that she had ALLEGEDLY been saved for about 50 years. However, the evidence of her salvation was lacking the more we talked with her. (i.e. Today, I do not believe she was ever born again in Christ.) Nonetheless, she wanted to be treated like she was the female bringer of wisdom to all the church, and when I would have to rebuke her on an almost weekly basis for bringing false information into the church, she did not like it.
I remember one example that I think will help give a good idea of what Madonna was doing during our weekly Skype calls in our church. I happened to mention "Where's Waldo?" (i.e. the children's book) in a joking manner concerning something we were talking about. Immediately upon saying this, Madonna tells everyone that it was a historical fact that "Where's Waldo" was created by the Jesuits to train children to hunt down Christians because "Waldo" was supposed to be representative of the "Waldensians." (i.e. the 15th century Christians who were being killed by the Catholic Church for preaching the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ)
At that point, I asked Madonna where she got that information from. She stuttered (as she normally does when she's called out on making up things from her imagination and treating them like they're facts), and then said she "couldn't remember." I took a few minutes and looked up a number of sources talking about the origin of "Where's Waldo?" and it turns out that it was created in the 20th century by an Australian man, and it was originally called "Where's Wally?" but was only changed to "Waldo" for marketing reasons when it came the U.S.
Whereas Madonna had no information or references for her statement, she then demanded to know where I got my information from. See the hypocrisy? She would do this almost every week with something, and it was always about Jesuit conspiracies.
Now, don't misunderstand; I believe the Jesuits are a secret cabal that do wicked things in the dark, and that is a conspiratorial organization by definition. However, to Madonna, EVERYTHING she disagreed with was a Jesuit conspiracy because she was one of those people who I would say treated her ideas about Jesuit conspiracies as if it were of equal importance to the Gospel of Salvation in Jesus Christ.
For example, one time, our church got to discussing the corruptions of Martin Luther because I had written an expose on the unbiblical nature of denominations, and Madonna immediately jumps in to defend Martin Luther, treating him with the same importance as if he were one of the 12 apostles of Jesus Christ. When I started to give her direct quotes from some of the wicked things that Martin Luther said, her response was to argue that all those bad things were inserted into history books by the Jesuits to make him look bad.
Knowing Madonna as I had come to know her, I knew she didn't have one tiny bit of evidence to her claim, she would always just state these things as fact, and then expected us to trust her feelings (i.e. because she is also one of those people who believe that her feelings are the equivalent of the Holy Ghost, which is a dangerous philosophy for many Scriptural reasons). So I asked her, "How do you know the Jesuits did not write in the good things about Martin Luther to deceive you?" Of course, as she normally does, she stutters because she got called out, and I remember, she paused for a moment, and then asked, "What?!" I repeated my question in more detail to try and help her understand because, if you claim that the Jesuits inserted information into historical records, then we can't trust ANY historical records, including the things that Madonna favors, or in other words, her way of thinking would not allow us to believe ANYTHING that was written throughout history, and so Madonna's personal feelings would become the ultimate decider of "truth" because she believes her feelings are the equivalent of the Holy Ghost.
So why did we put up with her in the church for so long? Charity and patience. That's why. And she took advantage of our good manners. It took me a few months to realize what was going on, but Madonna is extremely manipulative because she does something called "gaslighting." When Madonna was called out on the garbage she was spewing out of her mouth, she would push back with rapid fire questions that had nothing to do with the subject matter, in order to make you forget about the topic at hand, and then question your own sanity to wonder if you had any reasoning in the first place. She's very good at it, and if you don't stop her mouth when she starts doing it, she will manipulate you, and she was successful at doing it with about five other members of our church, who all left about the same time she did in December of 2020.
The next part of this story I will try to keep brief because there are a lot of details that would take too long to explain. Our church had a big event meetup. Many of us are online in different states and countries, so we had our first event to meetup together for a week at our home in Indiana (i.e. many of us had never met face to face). With the help of some of my family out here, we had places for everyone to stay, and were all ready to go, but behind our backs, Madonna (with the help of two women she manipulated) arranged an AirBnB house for her and the two women specifically (without contact any of the elders running the event), and that house they rented was located in Indianapolis, a two-hour round trip drive from our home. In case you don't understand, she and the other two women were traveling a two-hour round trip everyday throughout the week, and spending most of their time together by themselves, away from the rest of the church, at the AirBnB.
If any of you are asking yourselves why she would do this, or how that makes sense, please let us know if you figure it out because we're now a year later, and our church has STILL not been able to make sense of this. Skipping past a LOT of other weird things that went on, the bottom line was that there was gossip rumors going around based on this group (there were total of 4 women and 2 men where the problem was coming from), and Lorraine and I were working so hard with little sleep to feed and take care of 20 people in our church--I finally had had enough. The day before everyone left, I sat everyone down and just got everything off my chest. I was tired of the facade, so I called them all out in front of the church.
Madonna obviously took great offense to this, but she put on a show, a big act full of niceties, giving everyone hugs afterwards and acting like we had all worked things out. However, two days after everyone left, Madonna gets on Skype and starts sending us Scripture references that she claimed we all need to read. This was sent in a very vindictive manner, and the Scripture was not used for the purpose of our study and understanding, but she sent them to us in a vengeful manner like a back-handed slap. One of the elders in our church saw this, and gently asked her what this was all about? She would not respond. Within a few days, the four women left the church without EVER addressing the church as a whole over their grievances (and the two men did the same thing a few weeks later), while hypocritically accusing me of not following proper Biblical procedure, when I DID address the church as a whole multiple times, and the church knows this, and can testify to this fact.
Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
-Mat 18:15-17
NONE of the six people who left (which includes Madonna) did that. They all ignored the commandments of Christ while accusing me of refusing to do what they refused to do.
Madonna absolutely did not want to do this because she viewed herself as a "matriarch" of the church, and she believes she should not have to be held accountable for anything she says and does, and because I don't want to make this too long, I'm leaving out TONS of details that would make your head spin. However, I will leave that to the rest of the church who witnessed these things, as I will state in a moment.
This is a warning to new members to our forum, this woman might try to contact you and manipulate you. If you want to leave us and follow her, that's your decision, but whatever you decide to do, please keep studying Scripture and stay vigilant.
Madonna chose to start sneaking around, skulking in the darkness to try and manipulate people, so we're bringing her to the light now since she's too cowardly to come forward.
For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
-Eph 5:8-13
If any members of our church have had interaction with Madonna, and you would like to share your testimony (including any evidence, like direct quotes and screenshots of conversations you have had with her) feel free to do so. If there is anything I have said here that any of you remember, and you would like to confirm it and back up what I said, feel free to do that too; it helps when we back up each others' testimonies.
If anyone here has NOT had interaction with her, please do not comment because I don't want this thread to get jumbled. The purpose of this thread is to provide information so new members who are contacted by her can get all the facts and make their own decision about what they are reading.
If Madonna reads this, please know that God will judge all these matters, and all the hearts of men will be revealed for what they are, including yours, so it is important that you come to repentance and faith in Christ so you can be born again before it's too late.
154
What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p28
« on: December 06, 2021, 04:43:20 PM »155
Wild Emails @ CLE / My Ministry Does Not Exist To Tell You What To Do
« on: November 30, 2021, 02:36:03 PM »
At the end, I'll explain why I'm posting this letter. This is not the first time he has written me. I cannot remember why I responded to him in the first place because I normally would not respond to anyone who does not provide their first name. (He only provided an abbreviation.)
NS FROM JAPAN:
I have a question about Christian doctrine that I want to ask you about: What is the Christian ethic when it comes to dealing with businesses? I have probably believed for a very long time that if a Christian buys from a business that does its business legitimately but uses its money to do things like support BLM in creating violence and murdering people, that Christian is basically guilty of murder along with the business that donated and BLM itself. Based on the last email exchange I have with you months ago, you seem to believe otherwise(?) Would you please teach me on what the proper Biblical answer to my question is and point out my errors if I have made any? Please forgive me if I am wasting your time again(like I did months ago, I am at times a foolish person who doesn't see the obvious)
What is the Christian ethic when it comes to dealing with businesses?
I don't know, you tell me.
First of all, you wrote that " When we see Hallmark greeting cards in stores (like the one shown here), the solution to the problem is not to boycott the store because the store doesn't care. Though some businesses do take stands on political/religious matters, most of them don't take any stand one way or another. They only provide what will make them money, and since our nation is getting more wicked every day, these cards, and other paraphernalia, will only become more commonplace " How can you say that you don't know a Christian ethic when it comes to businesses? I don't get it, but you seem to be okay for other doctrines, so perhaps this is just a small oversight.
The Bible says that the entire law is basically 1. Do what God commands you to do, and 2. Treat others the same way you want to be treated.
I found out some time ago that YouTube, for example, has done things such as supporting BLM(who murdered quite a number of Americans and caused a lot of harm to Americans) and censoring non-WHO approved views of COVID-19, which may have killed a lot of people. The people of the world have their consciences defiled and seared with a hot iron, so they will do what's right in their own eyes and they will continue doing what they think is right unless they are born-again - corruption is everywhere. So, if I were to watch some videos on YT, they're almost certainly going to show me some ads, and almost every time I get those YT gets richer and is more able to do evil, not to mention that the Biden admin and DOJ is doing nothing about it. In other words, if I were to use YouTube, I'm basically harming people.
Some people have said that it's YouTube that's the bad guy and consumers are innocent, but isn't that a foolish argument if we compare it to what the Bible says? Some time ago I wrote to you about YouTube videos getting posted openly on the CLE forum and that's basically inviting people to watch the video and cause YT to earn money off it, which harms others and I didn't get a clear reason why no action was taken or something.
So, this is what I have to say, please point out any errors and correct me if I made any.
I'm going to point out the problem with your email, tell you the same thing I told you last time, and then I'm going to block your email address because you're not listening to me.
1. What is the Christian ethic when it comes to dealing with businesses?
The first thing I expect to see when someone writes me a letter entitled "Question about Biblical Doctrine" is... ya know... THE BIBLE. So, for example, someone might say, "Hey, I was reading these verses, and I was not understanding X, what does this mean?" Now that's a question about Biblical doctrine. That is not at all what you were doing. Your question was asking for MY opinion about what YOU should do concerning businesses. My opinion is irrelevant. And I'm pretty sure I told you last time that I am NOT going to tell you what to do in your own household because that is not my job (and that's not what I did in the article), and what you asked me was NOT a question about "Biblical doctrine." (In fact, so far, you haven't asked me a single question about Biblical doctrine since you first wrote to me, but you think they're all "Bible questions.")
2. Concerning my quote, you didn't say where you got it from. The context of the article explains what I meant; when everyone is carrying queer greeting cards (which most places do nowadays), then where are you supposed to go to buy what you need? Some people have choices, others don't. If I tell them to boycott the stores, I could be telling a family to starve, and I'm not going to do that. The solution is to look at the heart of the problem, not at the surface issues, and I certainly did not write that to give you an excuse to treat me like I'm your personal priest, or your dad, or your god. I am none of those, and that is NOT my job.
3. I told you last time (and nothing has changed) that I believe that your way of thinking is different from my way of thinking, and that of our forum and our church. If you want someone to tell you what to do, go find another ministry. There are LOADS of them out there that will tell you exactly what you should do on all the matters you have brought up to me. We focus on liberty in Christ and conviction from the Holy Ghost for each individual Christian according to the context of their situation. As I told you before, it's better that you depart from this ministry and go find what you're looking for because I don't want you to waste your time, and I don't want you to waste mine either. I hope God guides you to the place you can get what you're looking for.
With that, I'm going to block your email address because I just cannot continue conversation with someone who's not going to hear me. I don't want to have to keep writing the same thing over and over to the same person.
END OF DISCUSSION
He titled his letter "Question about Biblical Doctrine," but to summarize (and I'm creating an analogy here), he basically asked me if it was a sin to buy a lamp from IKEA. Folks, let me make this VERY clear: I AM NOT HERE FOR THAT. I do not exist to tell you what to do in your life, household, and buying habits. That is the job of the Holy Spirit within you. There are TONS of ministries out there who have corrupt preachers that are more than willing to overstep the authority of the Holy Ghost to tell you what to do, so go join them if that is what you're looking for.
This guy has previously written me asking me if he should join the Japanese military. I told him that I am not his father or his god. Then, after I told him similar things that I explained to him in this letter, he wrote me again asking me, and I quote: "would you not consider me a murderer if I had a YouTube channel?" After I explained this to him again, he went back to his original question about the Japanese military, and then asked me if the Japanese constitution is Biblical, to which, I ignored his letter, and now, a few months later, he's back.
This is why my wording to him was stronger than my original letters.
The reason my first response to him in the above email was just to say "I don't know, you tell me," was to get him to attempt to explain it on his own, as well as communicate to him that I was not going to answer his questions, even though I had already DIRECTLY said that to him in previous letters, and he ignored me. You can tell by the tone of his response, he did not like my first response to him, and was, at least somewhat, upset with me.
Some of you might have though he was being humble, but humility involves the ability to listen to someone else. He was not listening to me because I was not giving him the answers he wanted. If he expected me to give him a specific answer, then there is no point in asking me the question anyway because he already had in his mind what he wanted me to say.
I am willing to listen and give advice when I'm asked for it, and help to understand Scripture if someone is struggling in their study, but I am not willing to give someone orders (in the name of God's Word) that they should do whatever it is they are asking me about. My job is to help Christians understand the philosophy and doctrine of the Lord Jesus Christ while they bring their humble requests to the Lord God, to live in His grace of liberty, and whatever you choose to do in your household is your responsibility, not mine, and you will be judged according to your decisions, not mine.
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
-Gal 5:1
NS FROM JAPAN:
I have a question about Christian doctrine that I want to ask you about: What is the Christian ethic when it comes to dealing with businesses? I have probably believed for a very long time that if a Christian buys from a business that does its business legitimately but uses its money to do things like support BLM in creating violence and murdering people, that Christian is basically guilty of murder along with the business that donated and BLM itself. Based on the last email exchange I have with you months ago, you seem to believe otherwise(?) Would you please teach me on what the proper Biblical answer to my question is and point out my errors if I have made any? Please forgive me if I am wasting your time again(like I did months ago, I am at times a foolish person who doesn't see the obvious)
What is the Christian ethic when it comes to dealing with businesses?
I don't know, you tell me.
First of all, you wrote that " When we see Hallmark greeting cards in stores (like the one shown here), the solution to the problem is not to boycott the store because the store doesn't care. Though some businesses do take stands on political/religious matters, most of them don't take any stand one way or another. They only provide what will make them money, and since our nation is getting more wicked every day, these cards, and other paraphernalia, will only become more commonplace " How can you say that you don't know a Christian ethic when it comes to businesses? I don't get it, but you seem to be okay for other doctrines, so perhaps this is just a small oversight.
The Bible says that the entire law is basically 1. Do what God commands you to do, and 2. Treat others the same way you want to be treated.
I found out some time ago that YouTube, for example, has done things such as supporting BLM(who murdered quite a number of Americans and caused a lot of harm to Americans) and censoring non-WHO approved views of COVID-19, which may have killed a lot of people. The people of the world have their consciences defiled and seared with a hot iron, so they will do what's right in their own eyes and they will continue doing what they think is right unless they are born-again - corruption is everywhere. So, if I were to watch some videos on YT, they're almost certainly going to show me some ads, and almost every time I get those YT gets richer and is more able to do evil, not to mention that the Biden admin and DOJ is doing nothing about it. In other words, if I were to use YouTube, I'm basically harming people.
Some people have said that it's YouTube that's the bad guy and consumers are innocent, but isn't that a foolish argument if we compare it to what the Bible says? Some time ago I wrote to you about YouTube videos getting posted openly on the CLE forum and that's basically inviting people to watch the video and cause YT to earn money off it, which harms others and I didn't get a clear reason why no action was taken or something.
So, this is what I have to say, please point out any errors and correct me if I made any.
I'm going to point out the problem with your email, tell you the same thing I told you last time, and then I'm going to block your email address because you're not listening to me.
1. What is the Christian ethic when it comes to dealing with businesses?
The first thing I expect to see when someone writes me a letter entitled "Question about Biblical Doctrine" is... ya know... THE BIBLE. So, for example, someone might say, "Hey, I was reading these verses, and I was not understanding X, what does this mean?" Now that's a question about Biblical doctrine. That is not at all what you were doing. Your question was asking for MY opinion about what YOU should do concerning businesses. My opinion is irrelevant. And I'm pretty sure I told you last time that I am NOT going to tell you what to do in your own household because that is not my job (and that's not what I did in the article), and what you asked me was NOT a question about "Biblical doctrine." (In fact, so far, you haven't asked me a single question about Biblical doctrine since you first wrote to me, but you think they're all "Bible questions.")
2. Concerning my quote, you didn't say where you got it from. The context of the article explains what I meant; when everyone is carrying queer greeting cards (which most places do nowadays), then where are you supposed to go to buy what you need? Some people have choices, others don't. If I tell them to boycott the stores, I could be telling a family to starve, and I'm not going to do that. The solution is to look at the heart of the problem, not at the surface issues, and I certainly did not write that to give you an excuse to treat me like I'm your personal priest, or your dad, or your god. I am none of those, and that is NOT my job.
3. I told you last time (and nothing has changed) that I believe that your way of thinking is different from my way of thinking, and that of our forum and our church. If you want someone to tell you what to do, go find another ministry. There are LOADS of them out there that will tell you exactly what you should do on all the matters you have brought up to me. We focus on liberty in Christ and conviction from the Holy Ghost for each individual Christian according to the context of their situation. As I told you before, it's better that you depart from this ministry and go find what you're looking for because I don't want you to waste your time, and I don't want you to waste mine either. I hope God guides you to the place you can get what you're looking for.
With that, I'm going to block your email address because I just cannot continue conversation with someone who's not going to hear me. I don't want to have to keep writing the same thing over and over to the same person.
END OF DISCUSSION
He titled his letter "Question about Biblical Doctrine," but to summarize (and I'm creating an analogy here), he basically asked me if it was a sin to buy a lamp from IKEA. Folks, let me make this VERY clear: I AM NOT HERE FOR THAT. I do not exist to tell you what to do in your life, household, and buying habits. That is the job of the Holy Spirit within you. There are TONS of ministries out there who have corrupt preachers that are more than willing to overstep the authority of the Holy Ghost to tell you what to do, so go join them if that is what you're looking for.
This guy has previously written me asking me if he should join the Japanese military. I told him that I am not his father or his god. Then, after I told him similar things that I explained to him in this letter, he wrote me again asking me, and I quote: "would you not consider me a murderer if I had a YouTube channel?" After I explained this to him again, he went back to his original question about the Japanese military, and then asked me if the Japanese constitution is Biblical, to which, I ignored his letter, and now, a few months later, he's back.
This is why my wording to him was stronger than my original letters.
The reason my first response to him in the above email was just to say "I don't know, you tell me," was to get him to attempt to explain it on his own, as well as communicate to him that I was not going to answer his questions, even though I had already DIRECTLY said that to him in previous letters, and he ignored me. You can tell by the tone of his response, he did not like my first response to him, and was, at least somewhat, upset with me.
Some of you might have though he was being humble, but humility involves the ability to listen to someone else. He was not listening to me because I was not giving him the answers he wanted. If he expected me to give him a specific answer, then there is no point in asking me the question anyway because he already had in his mind what he wanted me to say.
I am willing to listen and give advice when I'm asked for it, and help to understand Scripture if someone is struggling in their study, but I am not willing to give someone orders (in the name of God's Word) that they should do whatever it is they are asking me about. My job is to help Christians understand the philosophy and doctrine of the Lord Jesus Christ while they bring their humble requests to the Lord God, to live in His grace of liberty, and whatever you choose to do in your household is your responsibility, not mine, and you will be judged according to your decisions, not mine.
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
-Gal 5:1
156
What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p27
« on: November 29, 2021, 12:03:26 PM »157
What's New @ CLE / (CORRECTION) Christmas and Semiramis/Tammuz/Nimrod
« on: November 26, 2021, 11:25:37 AM »
I recently rewrote the Christmas article into a full length book.
http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/christmas.php
In doing so, I eliminated a large fraction of the teaching, and it was specifically on the subject of Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz. It turns out, the entire thing was false.
When I first wrote that teaching, I was working another job to make ends meet. I did not have as much time to work on my writing as I have now, and over the years, I've gained more experience. So now, with better experience, and full-time in ministry (thanks to the Lord God for to the donations of a handful of you out there every month who help us out), I was able to investigate my references a little closer.
When I originally wrote on that subject, I had a variety of sources, but what I did not realize at the time was that everyone of those sources pointed back to ONE source, and they were all pointing to the EXACT SAME source. That source was a pamphlet called "The Two Babylons" written in 1853 by a Scottish Presbyterian theologian named Alexander Hislop.
I checked out Hislop's pamphlet (which has been republished into books many times), and there are NO sources, eyewitnesses, or any other documentation I can find in it to prove his points. He literally makes up the story as he goes, and there is NO EVIDENCE to back up the claims.
So what a bunch of authors do is take his book, repeat his false information because it makes them sound smart, and then they start making money from sales. If you don't believe me, do the research for yourself. Look up any books that talk about the Semiramis/Tammuz mother/son sexual relation in Babylon, and you will find that the author does one of the follow:
1. Provides no references.
2. References back to Hislop's 1853 "The Two Babylons" pamphlet.
3. Provides references to others book that also reference "The Two Babylons."
(Previously, I was in category #3, and I got fooled because I did not look closely enough.)
Please do not misunderstand; "MYSTERY BABYLON" in Scripture (Revelation 17) is still paganism started in Babylon, separated by languages (where we get so many names for the pagan gods and goddesses), and then perverted by the Catholic Church into a demonic fusion of Babylonian witchcraft with the Bible. Nothing has changed on that subject, but I wanted to correct the details on Semiramis because I can't go back and change the old audio I had on the subject; so please be cautious when listening to my old Christmas audio teachings--I will be doing new ones in the future when we get around to it.
Thanks for your patience as I work on these older projects to correct, edit, add to, and polish them.
http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/christmas.php
In doing so, I eliminated a large fraction of the teaching, and it was specifically on the subject of Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz. It turns out, the entire thing was false.
When I first wrote that teaching, I was working another job to make ends meet. I did not have as much time to work on my writing as I have now, and over the years, I've gained more experience. So now, with better experience, and full-time in ministry (thanks to the Lord God for to the donations of a handful of you out there every month who help us out), I was able to investigate my references a little closer.
When I originally wrote on that subject, I had a variety of sources, but what I did not realize at the time was that everyone of those sources pointed back to ONE source, and they were all pointing to the EXACT SAME source. That source was a pamphlet called "The Two Babylons" written in 1853 by a Scottish Presbyterian theologian named Alexander Hislop.
I checked out Hislop's pamphlet (which has been republished into books many times), and there are NO sources, eyewitnesses, or any other documentation I can find in it to prove his points. He literally makes up the story as he goes, and there is NO EVIDENCE to back up the claims.
So what a bunch of authors do is take his book, repeat his false information because it makes them sound smart, and then they start making money from sales. If you don't believe me, do the research for yourself. Look up any books that talk about the Semiramis/Tammuz mother/son sexual relation in Babylon, and you will find that the author does one of the follow:
1. Provides no references.
2. References back to Hislop's 1853 "The Two Babylons" pamphlet.
3. Provides references to others book that also reference "The Two Babylons."
(Previously, I was in category #3, and I got fooled because I did not look closely enough.)
Please do not misunderstand; "MYSTERY BABYLON" in Scripture (Revelation 17) is still paganism started in Babylon, separated by languages (where we get so many names for the pagan gods and goddesses), and then perverted by the Catholic Church into a demonic fusion of Babylonian witchcraft with the Bible. Nothing has changed on that subject, but I wanted to correct the details on Semiramis because I can't go back and change the old audio I had on the subject; so please be cautious when listening to my old Christmas audio teachings--I will be doing new ones in the future when we get around to it.
Thanks for your patience as I work on these older projects to correct, edit, add to, and polish them.
158
What's New @ CLE / (BOOK) Christmas: Rejecting Jesus
« on: November 24, 2021, 10:02:35 AM »
Christmas: Rejecting Jesus
I have rewritten this article into a 12-chapter book. I have done a lot of revision and correction in this, so it should now be about as accurate as I can make it.
This book covers every angle, including the origin, traditions, practices, philosophies, and false doctrines surrounding the Christmas celebration, and proves from Scripture that those who practice the Christmas traditions are participating in idolatry, whether churchgoers want to admit it or not.
I have rewritten this article into a 12-chapter book. I have done a lot of revision and correction in this, so it should now be about as accurate as I can make it.
This book covers every angle, including the origin, traditions, practices, philosophies, and false doctrines surrounding the Christmas celebration, and proves from Scripture that those who practice the Christmas traditions are participating in idolatry, whether churchgoers want to admit it or not.
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« on: November 22, 2021, 04:53:13 PM »160