Author Topic: Pastors vs Government  (Read 2437 times)

MeganIA

  • BANNED
  • Sojourner (Forum LVL 2)
  • *
  • Posts: 96
  • Edification: 30
    • View Profile
  • First Name: Megan
  • Belief: Christian
  • Gender: Female
  • Location: Iowa
Pastors vs Government
« on: September 12, 2020, 10:53:51 AM »
I didn't set out to keep up on pastors defying the government covid mandates, but it keeps showing up as recommended videos for me on Youtube. John Macarthur's saga is the one that most people on there are talking about.

The judge recently ruled against Grace Community Church with an injunction from holding indoor services.

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2020/09/11/judge-grants-injunction-prohibiting-sun-valley-church-from-holding-indoor-services/

At least from what I've seen, it appears he still intends on defying the order this Sunday. The comments in the videos and articles I've seen are all supportive of Macarthur and often use Hebrews 10:25.

Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

While we should assemble, I have not seen any rules, at least in the states, that prevents the church from assembling. The lowest limit at one point was gathering 10 people, and I would be hard pressed to find that many like minded believers near me.

GCC is 501c3, so they have to obey the orders from what I understand. If Macarthur removed himself from the organization and actually taught sound doctrine, he wouldn't be on the county's radar since there'd hardly be anyone left listening to him.

On one hand, I don't like the covid rules either, but the other hand, these pastors have set themselves up to be in the positions they are in. Macarthur and the other pastors rebelling the orders believe they are obeying God, but they could actually be causing judgment on themselves.

Any thoughts?
« Last Edit: September 12, 2020, 10:58:44 AM by MeganIA »
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

creationliberty

  • Administrator
  • Pillar of the Community (Forum LVL MAX)
  • *
  • Posts: 3758
  • Edification: 448
    • View Profile
    • Creation Liberty Evangelism
  • First Name: Christopher
  • Belief: Christian
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Indiana
Re: Pastors vs Government
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2020, 12:46:32 PM »
No, it's not just a casual "GCC is 501c3, so they have to obey the orders," because we have to remember that 501c3 means the church organization is an INDIRECT GOVERNMENT ENTITY, which means, if the state chose to do so, they would be in the right to shut down GCC by force. The only reason they will not do it right now is because it would not be popular with the community, and currently, most citizens are not pleased with their state government lock downs, which means it would not be a good move because media would immediately jump on it and get the public hyped up in anger, despite the fact that the government would be justified to do so, and yet, with the danger of the Marxist, communist, domestic terrorism going on right now from Black Lives Matter, it would not be wise to divert resources, and thus, GCC knows the government will do nothing at this time.

GCC is required to close its doors until their true master, the government, says otherwise. We, however, have signed no contract with the government, and therefore, those orders are nothing more than suggestions that we will ignore.

The reason we are justified and GCC is not is because GCC is an indirect government entity (and their church building U.S. military infrastructure) via the 501c3 contract they agreed to in order to take special tax benefits from U.S. citizens (i.e. U.S. taxpayers who have to make up for GCC, who does not pay taxes).

John MacArthur is violating his contract, I am convinced he, and his staff, KNOW they are violating their contract, and they have all heard the Word of God, so they know they will be judged, but again, as any typical mainstream megachurch, they think being "under grace" means you have free ticket to sin, despite that they might stand on pretense to teach their audience otherwise.

They know that, while their doors are closed, they will not make as much money in donations. That's what it really comes down to; because GCC are a den of robbers, and therefore, their attitude is that everyone else should carry a burden, not being able to work and do their jobs, but not GCC.

And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.
-Luke 11:46

Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit. Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not; And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations? Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen it, saith the LORD.
-Jeremiah 7:8-11


Thus, they are sinning by lying against their government contract (i.e. breaking their word), and at the same time, violating Romans 13, which John MacArthur himself has hypocritically preached the following:
"Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. That is an unqualified statement. It doesn't qualify who those governing authorities are and it doesn't qualify what subjection might mean. Therefore we can conclude that we have an unqualified, unmitigated command to be subjected to the governing authorities, whatever they are."
-John MacArthur, "Why Christians Submit to the Government," Grace To You, Jan 30, 2011, retrieved Aug 27, 2015, [gty.org/Resources/Sermons/80-364]

unqualified (adj): complete, unlimited
unmitigated (adj): absolute

(See 'unqualified' & 'unmitigated', Random House Dictionary, 2015, [www.dictionary.com]; See also Collins English Dictionary, 10th Edition, William Collins Sons & Co, 2012)

John MacArthur is a very wealthy liar and hypocrite, and I have had him on my radar for some time, considering doing a "Wolves in Costume" to expose him for what he is.

See 501c3: The Devil's Church for more details.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

Jeanne

  • Pillar of the Community (Forum LVL MAX)
  • *
  • Posts: 1538
  • Edification: 125
    • View Profile
  • First Name: Jeanne
  • Belief: Other
  • Gender: Female
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Pastors vs Government
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2020, 12:15:39 AM »
All very good points, Chris, and I really wish you would do a Wolves In Costume expose on him, as my mother still listens to him every day and thinks the world of him.

Speaking of the Wolves in Costume series, I noticed the other day that the Kent Hovind article is in the 'Other' section instead of the Wolves section. I was wondering why i had so much trouble finding it a while back and actually had to use the search bar.

creationliberty

  • Administrator
  • Pillar of the Community (Forum LVL MAX)
  • *
  • Posts: 3758
  • Edification: 448
    • View Profile
    • Creation Liberty Evangelism
  • First Name: Christopher
  • Belief: Christian
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Indiana
Re: Pastors vs Government
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2020, 12:42:51 AM »
I had forgotten to the change the category. It should be fixed now.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

MeganIA

  • BANNED
  • Sojourner (Forum LVL 2)
  • *
  • Posts: 96
  • Edification: 30
    • View Profile
  • First Name: Megan
  • Belief: Christian
  • Gender: Female
  • Location: Iowa
Re: Pastors vs Government
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2020, 02:06:44 PM »
I definitely oversimplified 501c3 on my post and should keep in mind to not assume foreknowledge when writing on a public forum as not all reading these posts have read the teaching linked above.

I am in agreement that Macarthur and the other pastors will likely not see any substantial negative consequences of their rebellion, at least immediately. The rebellion is encouraged by the White House based on the President's response to Macarthur's legal troubles (https://www.foxnews.com/faith-values/california-pastor-told-trump-any-real-true-believer-will-vote-for-him-over-biden).

Macarthur's lawyer, Jenna Ellis, is a Senior Legal Advisor and attorney to the President (https://twitter.com/JennaEllisEsq). She has given the appearance of being a Christian per her tweet on 6/22/2020 (https://twitter.com/JennaEllisEsq/status/1275215576684802049), "I'm going on record now: If they try to cancel Christianity, if they try to force me to apologize or recant my Faith, I will not bend, I will not waver, I will not break. On Christ the solid Rock I stand. And I'm proud to be an American"

I have not seen the doctrine she believes, but if it's anything like her boss, the President, I can only imagine that it is not sound doctrine. This is a clip of an interview he gave in my college town of Ames, IA back in 2015 at the Family Leadership Summit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1dVtwfVXx0&t=420s.

His version of Christianity is a lot like a churchgoer's, and his pastor he speaks highly of was a well known 33rd degree Scottish Rite freemason (https://web.archive.org/web/20161201135238/https://scottishrite.org/headquarters/virtual-tour/temple-architects-hall-of-honor/).
 
There appears to be a Christ-like group of people ("light" or right) rising in the government to fight what appears to be an obviously evil group of people ("dark" or left). How incredibly deceptive to someone who does not know sound doctrine! I found myself almost trapped by this shortly after I was saved. I am blessed by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ to guide me away from this snare. To be drawn to this now would be much harder with the events of 2020.

Psalms 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.