Author Topic: alcohol  (Read 1693 times)

dmac

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alcohol
« on: June 20, 2021, 02:56:43 PM »
Something ive flip flopped on more times i can count is whether or not alcohol is ok to drink. Ive never been addicted to alcohol but my mother died from liver failure so i understand the dangers of alcohol. Ive had the more liberal stance of alcohol that God doesnt care as long as im not a drunk and ive had the stance of alcohol is never ok no matter what. In the past i have compared alcohol to pot saying if alcohols ok pot must be too. Not true by the way pot is a whole other subject ill explain a little more why a little later. Anyway I do now believe i have a proper understanding of alcohol. I believe alcohol is intended to be a blessing.
    Deuteronomy 14 26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the Lord thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household.
This passage is something i could never explain when i had the stance of alcohol is never ok but one passage i used to kind of counter this passage is proverbs 23 verse 29
Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?
30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
33 Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.
34 Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast.
35 They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.

When analyzing this passage and looking at the context of what kind of person its referring to in this case being They that tarry long at the wine and they that go seek mixed wine it sounds like when its speaking directly to this type of person perhaps an alcoholic not to look upon the wine.
I also think pot is a whole different subject because although i used to say years ago when i was addicted to pot "the bible never talks about weed man" I now would tell my past self that argument can be used against pot also as its never explained to be a blessing as i believe alcohol has been. Feel free to correct me if im wrong on anything.

heathertaylor

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Re: alcohol
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2021, 08:54:45 PM »
I just read this post and there is 2 articles that I have read that Chris studied on and made an article with a ton of scriptural backing and that's the Bible vs Alcohol teaching and the teaching on the Biblical understanding of Charity.



2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Pilgrim Mike

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Re: alcohol
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2021, 04:15:47 PM »
If you haven't already, I pray that you read the recommended articles. I strongly reccomend that you highlight the verses from the article in your Bible. God bless.

someguy85

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Re: alcohol
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2022, 10:33:26 AM »
When it comes to alcohol, it definitely leans more towards the darker shades of a "grey area" if you will.

First off, some straight up facts, alcohol is a depressant and there are people who have died from over consumption of it, or caused themselves serious damage. On the lesser end of that, many have made very poor decisions and/or sinned while drunk, and yes drunkeness is condemned in the bible. Of everything I've seen, while drunk a lot of people lose a lot of their inhibitions while under the influence and their, more natural side (often time the sin side) tends to rear it's ugly head. So yes, it's dangerous.

Thing is, alcohol can also be used as an antiseptic (I think anything about 50% can act as a medical cleaner for a wound if nothing else is available,) and it also has the ability to act as a much safer option for preserving certain organic material than say formaldehyde or similar things. Thing is there aren't many practical uses for it.

As far as addiction goes, addiction affects different people in different ways. Some people might be able to take a drink but never need one again, some might become addicted to the feeling of drunkeness, others might get addicted after their first drop, same happens with other things and I believe everyone has the predisposition for a weakness to being addicted to something, thankfully some never find out what theirs is.

Will you go to hell for drinking any alcohol? No, that's never stated anywhere in the bible (although there are a number of warnings about how it can make a fool out of you in scripture,) but there are more risks than there are rewards (if any) for using it. All in all, it's not worth the risk.
Romans: {11:3} Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. {11:4} But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to [the image of] Baal.

TheChickenWhisperer

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Re: alcohol
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2023, 09:11:20 AM »
When it comes to alcohol, it definitely leans more towards the darker shades of a "grey area" if you will.

First off, some straight up facts, alcohol is a depressant and there are people who have died from over consumption of it, or caused themselves serious damage. On the lesser end of that, many have made very poor decisions and/or sinned while drunk, and yes drunkeness is condemned in the bible. Of everything I've seen, while drunk a lot of people lose a lot of their inhibitions while under the influence and their, more natural side (often time the sin side) tends to rear it's ugly head. So yes, it's dangerous.

Thing is, alcohol can also be used as an antiseptic (I think anything about 50% can act as a medical cleaner for a wound if nothing else is available,) and it also has the ability to act as a much safer option for preserving certain organic material than say formaldehyde or similar things. Thing is there aren't many practical uses for it.

As far as addiction goes, addiction affects different people in different ways. Some people might be able to take a drink but never need one again, some might become addicted to the feeling of drunkeness, others might get addicted after their first drop, same happens with other things and I believe everyone has the predisposition for a weakness to being addicted to something, thankfully some never find out what theirs is.

Will you go to hell for drinking any alcohol? No, that's never stated anywhere in the bible (although there are a number of warnings about how it can make a fool out of you in scripture,) but there are more risks than there are rewards (if any) for using it. All in all, it's not worth the risk.

Forgive me for asking, but isn't that just giving your opinion on alcohol?  Heather included articles and Dylan included scripture with what he said.  I am not trying to start trouble; I often do the same thing and I know that I should include scripture when trying to help someone work through a subject like that. Just my two cents worth.  :)
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Matthew 9:13

someguy85

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Re: alcohol
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2023, 10:21:21 AM »
More or less what I've seen of it. I've seen people try it, say "nah, not interested" and not touch it again, and some can try it and it'll be a problem for the rest of their lives.

As far as scripture goes, there are many warnings about drinking the stuff

Habakkuk {2:15} Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to [him,] and makest [him] drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!
(Beware those who get someone drunk so they can sexually take advantage of someone.)

Joel: {1:5} Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth.
(eventually even your only solace in life will end because of judgement.)

Lamentations: {4:21} Rejoice and be glad, O daughter of Edom, that dwellest in the land of Uz; the cup also shall pass through unto thee: thou shalt be drunken, and shalt make thyself naked.
(Alcohol can make you do embarrassing stuff.)

Jeremiah {51:7} Babylon [hath been] a golden cup in the LORD’S hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.
(Not directly a warning against alcohol, but a reference to the cup of catholic communion even in the old testament...an interesting thing to think on.)

Isaiah {28:1} Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which [are] on the head of the fat valleys of them that are
overcome with wine! {28:2} Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, [which] as a tempest of hail [and] a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing,
shall cast down to the earth with the hand. {28:3} The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim, shall be trodden under feet:
(More judgement on drunkards, from what I can gather Ephraim had a big problem with the drink.)

Proverbs {23:21} For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe [a man] with rags.
(So many who have fallen in life due to alcohol are so often overcome with poverty and have a hard time getting or keeping decent work)

Genesis {9:20} And Noah began [to be] an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard: {9:21} And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. {9:22} And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
(Not entirely sure if Ham did something with Noah while he was drunk but something must have happened for Noah to curse Canaan, Ham's son.)

Ephesians {5:18} And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
(Drinking is rarely done sparingly these days, not many people have just half a glass of wine with dinner, it's often taken to the extreme)

Galatians {5:19} Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these;] Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, {5:20} Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, {5:21} Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
(Sure the body is in need of some things while we are here, but those who do nothing but live for these things, especially those who live for friday and saturday nights so they can get completely sauced are of the flesh, it's a sign of the heart and a sinful heart will not inherit the kingdom of God.)

1 Corinthians {6:9} Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor
abusers of themselves with mankind, {6:10} Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
(Similar list given to the Galatians except sent to the church in Corinth.)

Luke {21:34} And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
(Again, we shouldn't live for things of this world, the booze being one of those things because this world will burn.)

Just a sample of the verses that deal with drunkenness, which is definitely condemned in scripture, and the only time I can find wine mentioned in a physically beneficial spot is when Paul was writing to Timothy in the second epistle 5:23:

"Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities."

Best guess I can give is that apparently red wine does have a good antioxidant content, and of course not letting things oxidize in the body is a good thing, but if this is a problem, so many other foods and also juices and teas contain antioxidants so it doesn't need to be found specifically in the wine (I believe this was something written directly for Timothy, not to be taken as any statement of doctrine, much like the greeting written in the beginning of the third epistle of John, it was meant to wish someone good health, not to say that every one of us will be prosperous and in good health.)

My first post wasn't meant to be drawn out, just some quick thoughts on the subject, sorry if it didn't come across as having any weight, but I still think it can be best summed out as just not being worth the risk. Honestly I think if booze disappeared tomorrow then it would make the world a better place, and it would mean that governments would have one less thing they could jack up taxes on and make money off addicts like cigarettes.

Hope this one was a little more helpful :)

Romans: {11:3} Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. {11:4} But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to [the image of] Baal.