Author Topic: (CORRECTION) Christ and the Father are One  (Read 3298 times)

creationliberty

  • Administrator
  • Pillar of the Community (Forum LVL MAX)
  • *
  • Posts: 3758
  • Edification: 448
    • View Profile
    • Creation Liberty Evangelism
  • First Name: Christopher
  • Belief: Christian
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Indiana
(CORRECTION) Christ and the Father are One
« on: April 05, 2019, 09:00:27 AM »
I am so sorry; yesterday, Tim had pointed out to me something I said in error in Wolves in Costume: Steven Anderson p10 concerning God in Three Persons and Anderson's firing of an employee video/audio that I now have on the article, "Wolves in Costume: Steven Anderson." Tim played my own teaching for me, and then I understood what I had forgotten.

I had made the statement that "Jesus is the Father is an unbiblical doctrine," and that is not correct, nor was that what I taught in my teaching on "Is the Trinity a Biblical Doctrine?" In fact, I do believe what the Bible teaches, namely, that God the Father, Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one God, but also three persons, but this not to be confused with "Pentecostal Oneness" doctrine, which was actually explained to me just yesterday during our Bible study; I was previously unaware of what they taught, nor did I really care what they taught, but now that I've said something in error, I had to understand what was going on.

First, the Pentecostals teach that when Jesus came to earth, God the Father left His throne and came down as Christ. That is heresy, and I do not believe or teach that. In hindsight, I now see that I've been falsely accused of teaching that on a number of occasions.

However, the Bible does teach that Jesus and the Father are one, and I'll show you what I mean, pulling this straight from the article, "Is the Trinity a Biblical Doctrine?" (For those of you who haven't read this, it explains how the term "Trinity" came from paganism through the Catholic Church, and that's why it is not found in Scripture. We Christians believe in God in Three Persons, but not the "Trinity" which is strictly pagan/Catholic.)

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.
-John 10:29-30
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
-Isaiah 9:6

As you can see, even in the prophecy of the Messiah in Isaiah, the Holy Spirit declared that Christ's name shall be called "The everlasting Father."  I added in this section for clarification, and I hope it helps:

"I've been accused by a lot of people for believing what they call a "oneness" doctrine, which is not true. The Pentecostals believe that when Jesus was on earth, God was not in heaven, meaning that they believe the Father came down to be the Son in the flesh, leaving heaven to do so; that is heresy (i.e. false doctrine against Scripture), and I don't believe that.

When God visited Abraham, was He no longer on His throne in heaven? When God visited Jacob or Moses, was He no longer on His throne in heaven? The Lord God can be in more than one place at the same time because He is not bound by space and time; He is the creator of space and time, and He is above and beyond His creation.

The problem with Pentecostals is that they don't believe in an omnipresent God, who can be at all places and all times at the same time. However, the problem with others is that they deny that Jesus and the Father are one because they don't believe in an omnipresent God, who can be at all places and all times at the same time. When something is really simple, I have a tendency to not make effort to memorize it; I put it out of my mind to make room for other things to memorize, and this seems to be one of those cases.

The omniscient (all-knowing nature) and omnipresence of God is something mankind cannot comprehend in our little brains. I cannot say that I fully understand it, but I believe it because the Bible teaches that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one God, but they are also three persons at the same time."


I had actually forgotten that I had taught this, even to the point that I forgot the Scriptures on it. The reason for this is because when I read these, I said to myself, "Okay, the Bible teaches that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one, and it teaches they are three persons (i.e. 'let us make man in our image, after our likeness' - Gen 1:26). I don't understand how that works, because I am limited in my understanding in the flesh, so I'm just going to believe it and move on." So in my mind, I believed what the Bible said, and that was enough for me, but there are a lot of cultists out there who make up all sorts of false doctrines to try and explain what we don't have the capability to explain.

Thus, the "Pentecostal Oneness" doctrine teaches heresy, and so does Steven Anderson. Both sides of this matter are in error. Both sides do not believe in the omnipresence of the Lord God. In the end, I have no idea what Tyler Baker believes because Anderson wouldn't let him get out five words before interrupting him, which is standard operating procedure for Anderson. I'm not defending Baker, nor am I saying he was correct; I don't know what he believes. All I know is what I believe and teach, and I will stand on the doctrine of Scripture.

In short, I apologize to everyone, and the audio teaching has been made and uploaded, so there's not much I can do about it now. God willing, I will be correcting this on Sunday's audio recording, and I hope it does not harm anyone's understanding; meaning that, if they'll listen to all the parts of the teaching, it should be okay. I just want to make it clear that Pentecostals and Steven Anderson are in error.

If anything, I would pray this would set a good example for those Andersonites out there who are brainwashed by Steven Anderson. I would say to them, "This is what a correction looks like."  :D And I'll add that our church didn't come to me and jump down my throat, nor did I strive and rail against them for bringing this to me; we all came to understanding together in one accord, which is how the church should be, so I hope Andersonites get to see what that's like as well, namely, for the church to work together, instead of being unified by the chains of a heavy-handed pastoral dictator.
Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
-Phl 2:2
« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 09:02:54 AM by creationliberty »
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

strangersmind

  • Born Again Christians
  • Disciplined (Forum LVL 5)
  • *
  • Posts: 519
  • Edification: 24
    • View Profile
  • First Name: Billy
  • Belief: Christian
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Philippines
Re: (CORRECTION) Christ and the Father are One
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2019, 09:32:41 AM »
When I heard it I just thought you may have spoken it wrong. I found some other teachings where you got something backwards. Nothing that can hurt doctrine. But I am just glad you shared and correct the mistake.

strangersmind

  • Born Again Christians
  • Disciplined (Forum LVL 5)
  • *
  • Posts: 519
  • Edification: 24
    • View Profile
  • First Name: Billy
  • Belief: Christian
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Philippines
Re: (CORRECTION) Christ and the Father are One
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2019, 09:45:05 AM »
I was going to ask a while ago but this reminds me. God in 3 person, is that the same as godhead mentioned in the new testament?

creationliberty

  • Administrator
  • Pillar of the Community (Forum LVL MAX)
  • *
  • Posts: 3758
  • Edification: 448
    • View Profile
    • Creation Liberty Evangelism
  • First Name: Christopher
  • Belief: Christian
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Indiana
Re: (CORRECTION) Christ and the Father are One
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2019, 10:22:33 AM »
I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but the God in Three Persons I mentioned being the Godhead, yes, I believe that. If you remember Col 2:8 which I quote all the time, the next verse points out that the Godhead (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) is represented bodily in Christ Jesus.
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
-Col 2:8-9
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

Dee Babbitt

  • BANNED
  • Commoner (Forum LVL 3)
  • *
  • Posts: 205
  • Edification: 29
    • View Profile
  • First Name: Dee
  • Belief: Christian
  • Gender: Female
  • Location: Southern California
Re: (CORRECTION) Christ and the Father are One
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2019, 11:46:25 AM »
Chris, last night at Bible study, when you were explaining this... I see a young man, who has been working very hard, doing work for God and helping so many people. 

I am so sorry; yesterday, Tim had pointed out to me something I said in error... Tim played my own teaching for me, and then I understood what I had forgotten.

If you are forgetting things, it can happen because you are so tired. 
(You remind me of my son Joshua, who needs to rest--but sees there is much work to do, and feels it is wrong to take time and rest.) 
Well, even Jesus needed to rest (and get away from the crowds) 
It is very important to rest. 

You've had so much on your mind... and that can be completely and utterly exhausting.
And now, there is the work on the property that awaits you.
Take some time off, to do the things you want to get done. 
You can rest and refresh yourself.
May God always Bless you and your family :-)
 
« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 12:06:50 PM by Dee Babbitt »