The book of Job

[Ellie]

Hi everyone,

Today I finished reading through Job for the first time. I enjoyed it and I was in awe about some of the things God has allowed me to understand, after understanding more lately about justifying oneself and repentance. I believe I have justified myself the way Job has, and I have been angry with God about my circumstances.

With the concept of repentance in mind, it was interesting to read these verses:
I cry unto thee, and thou dost not hear me: I stand up, and thou regardest me not. Thou art become cruel to me: with thy strong hand thou opposest thyself against me. (Job 30:20-21)
Job was not crying out to God in repentance, but rather, was crying out in complaint and anger towards God. He was justifying himself based on his own perceived righteousness so there wasn't humility in his crying out to Him.
So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes.(Job:32:1)

Elihu's response/reaction was also very interesting to me, especially because he states that he was younger than the other men.
Also against his three friends was his wrath kindled, because they had found no answer, and yet had condemned Job.
4 Now Elihu had waited till Job had spoken, because they were elder than he.
5 When Elihu saw that there was no answer in the mouth of these three men, then his wrath was kindled.
6 And Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite answered and said, I am young, and ye are very old; wherefore I was afraid, and durst not shew you mine opinion.
7 I said, Days should speak, and multitude of years should teach wisdom.
8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.
9 Great men are not always wise: neither do the aged understand judgment.
10 Therefore I said, Hearken to me; I also will shew mine opinion.
11 Behold, I waited for your words; I gave ear to your reasons, whilst ye searched out what to say.
12 Yea, I attended unto you, and, behold, there was none of you that convinced Job, or that answered his words:
13 Lest ye should say, We have found out wisdom: God thrusteth him down, not man.
14 Now he hath not directed his words against me: neither will I answer him with your speeches.
15 They were amazed, they answered no more: they left off speaking.
16 When I had waited, (for they spake not, but stood still, and answered no more;)
17 I said, I will answer also my part, I also will shew mine opinion.
18 For I am full of matter, the spirit within me constraineth me.
19 Behold, my belly is as wine which hath no vent; it is ready to burst like new bottles.
20 I will speak, that I may be refreshed: I will open my lips and answer.
21 Let me not, I pray you, accept any man's person, neither let me give flattering titles unto man.
22 For I know not to give flattering titles; in so doing my maker would soon take me away.

There's a few things I find interesting about this passage.

• Elihu is younger, and he is respectful towards them that are older, but he eventually does speak because none of the other men were able to answer Job. I appreciate this because it gives some guidance on how God's younger people should conduct themselves in situations like these.
• He was able to answer simply because the Holy Spirit gave understanding, not because of age or position. He was silent in observation and he was able to give righteous judgement when his three friends couldn't, because (I believe) they were making judgements based on assumption, while Elihu actually had evidence for where Job was wrong.

8 Surely thou hast spoken in mine hearing, and I have heard the voice of thy words, saying,
9 I am clean without transgression, I am innocent; neither is there iniquity in me.
10 Behold, he findeth occasions against me, he counteth me for his enemy,
11 He putteth my feet in the stocks, he marketh all my paths.
12 Behold, in this thou art not just: I will answer thee, that God is greater than man.
13 Why dost thou strive against him? for he giveth not account of any of his matters.(Job 33:8-13)

• He also addresses accepting persons and giving flattering titles (which he also does later on), which I have also recently come to more understanding about, by God's grace. So, I just find it really exciting to see the concepts in scripture when I read it for myself.

There are other things I got from the book as a whole, but Elihu's words did stand out to me when I read them.

So I do have a couple of questions. Sometimes I was a little confused by Job's three friend's responses. It seemed like some of what they were saying was right, but it is clear that they were unjustified in some of what they said. Was it simply that because they were making judgements based on assumptions about Job? Did they ever say anything that was actually doctrinally false, possibly? I know I should go back and read these portions more slowly, because sometimes it was slightly hard for me to follow.

I am going to continue studying it, so if anyone also has any important concepts, favorite verses/passages, important details from the book of Job, please feel free to share those. Also if I was wrong in anything I said, please correct me. I really want to have a better understanding and I know I truly have a lot of room to grow. And if there is anything wrong with the type of post I am making here, let me know. I just wanted to share a couple thoughts from the passage, ask a couple questions, and open up an opportunity for people to share any additional topics from the book in general.

[Jeanne]

Ellie, there is absolutely nothing wrong with making this type of post. This is exactly the type of thing the forum is here for; to share what we've learned from the Scriptures and to ask questions. Sometimes, though, these things don't generate a lot of discussion, either because no one has anything to add or because none of us has really studied it out, either.

I will say that I agree with you in that Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar made a lot of false assumptions in what they were saying. They assumed that God was punishing Job for some specific hidden sin in his life and that He had caused all this misfortune to befall Job rather than simply allowing it to happen. It seems to me that they also falsely assumed that God does not do anything without justification, not realising that God does not need a reason or justification for ANYTHING He does.

Exodus 33:19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.

Romans 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

They didn't recognise the fact that neither they, nor Job, deserved anything good from God and that they all deserved the same punishment for wickedness. Job repented of his attitude after God spoke to him, but the other three did not, which is why God rebuked them at the end and told them to have Job pray for them. Notice He did not say anything to Elihu, though.

Thank you for posting this. You pointed out some things that I had never really thought about before. I've read through Job several times, but never taken the time to actually study it before.

[Ellie]

Jeanne,

Okay, that is good to know. I just thought it might have been too general of a post. Maybe it's allowed but maybe you're right that it may not generate much discussion. Haha, that's okay though.

Thank you for posting those verses. It does give more dimension to my understanding of what happened in Job. I knew those verses already but I didn't think of them in this context, if that makes sense. I am really starting to learn more what this verse means:
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: (Isaiah 28:10)

Even if not many people end up contributing to this post, I already am very thankful for that addition to my understanding. Thanks Jeanne! It helps me to start seeing the fullness of doctrines and it honestly really humbles me to be able to reread verses I already know but in a way that helps me understand entirely different parts of scripture that I didn't think of before. Praise God! The way He laid out the doctrines of His word is so amazing. It's like finding treasure!
For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it. (Proverbs 8:11)

They didn't recognise the fact that neither they, nor Job, deserved anything good from God and that they all deserved the same punishment for wickedness. Job repented of his attitude after God spoke to him, but the other three did not, which is why God rebuked them at the end and told them to have Job pray for them. Notice He did not say anything to Elihu, though.

Thank you for posting this. You pointed out some things that I had never really thought about before. I've read through Job several times, but never taken the time to actually study it before.

I did notice that God did not say anything to Elihu. That was interesting, as well as the way Elihu wasn't mentioned before that. He wasn't seen mourning with Job at the beginning (though, I am not sure if that means he wasn't there) the way his other three friends were. It makes me think that Elihu bringing his righteous judgement guided by God could have been of higher value to Job than what his 3 friends did in mourning with him. While I believe they were being good friends at that time because Job wasn't starting to verbalize his self justification yet, Elihu seemed to come in and say what needed to be said at the right time which was of greater profit to the well-being of Job's spirit. He wasn't even listed as a friend of Job but he was much more loving than his three friends because he presented the truth plainly to him.

I'm glad I was able to point out some new things to you. I wasn't planning on studying Job too much yet, I was planning on just continuing to read through the OT so I could get through my first reading of it, but I felt convicted to spend more time on Job because sometimes I go through too quickly and I didn't understand some things when I read it. I think it's a very interesting book. Thanks again for your response!

[Laura]

Hi Ellie,

I don't have anything to add to your discussion on the book of Job as I have not read it yet, but I just wanted to say that I too think that gaining understanding of scripture is like finding treasure. I am in Deuteronomy right now. I have never read the OT before and I am going through it slowly. I try not to get too far ahead if there is something I don't understand. I've found that sometimes reading a little ahead will answer my question by helping me understand the context better. If not, I will re-read it, do some research, and pray for understanding. Your post is a good reminder that I can share what I am learning here on the forum and ask questions if there is something I am struggling to grasp. It's amazing the things I am reading, and I praise the Lord for Him opening my understanding! Although posts like this may not generate much discussion, as Jeanne said, they are edifying and might help someone by simply reading it.

[Ellie]

Hi Ellie,

I don't have anything to add to your discussion on the book of Job as I have not read it yet, but I just wanted to say that I too think that gaining understanding of scripture is like finding treasure. I am in Deuteronomy right now. I have never read the OT before and I am going through it slowly. I try not to get too far ahead if there is something I don't understand. I've found that sometimes reading a little ahead will answer my question by helping me understand the context better. If not, I will re-read it, do some research, and pray for understanding. Your post is a good reminder that I can share what I am learning here on the forum and ask questions if there is something I am struggling to grasp. It's amazing the things I am reading, and I praise the Lord for Him opening my understanding! Although posts like this may not generate much discussion, as Jeanne said, they are edifying and might help someone by simply reading it.

Laura,
It really does feel that way. I get excited and joyful like a little kid sometimes when God teaches me something new that I didn't realize before. I have read through 2 Samuel and then I skipped ahead to read through Job, but after I study it some more I'll probably go back to 1 Kings and continue on. That seems like a good system of study. How do you do your research? I am sometimes nervous to do research online because of times in the past where I searched a question I had and then ran into false doctrines that ended up confusing me a little bit.

Yes, please share! I think there can be some benefit to doing so, even if people don't respond very much. For me, I also personally enjoyed writing out some of my takeaways from Job, and thanks be to God if He ever gives me any understanding that is even slightly beneficial for anyone else... even if it's just a repetition of what God has already taught them in the past! Praise God for the understanding He lovingly gives His children.

[Laura]

Yes, understanding of scripture is a gift from the Holy Spirit! Most of my research is looking up definitions in Noah Webster's 1828 dictionary. The meaning of some words can be easily deciphered by the context, while others not so much, but I still find it helpful to look up the words I am not familiar with so I can get an even clearer understanding. If there is a verse or phrase that I have re-read and still do not understand I will pray, search for corresponding scripture, search the CLE website to see if it is mentioned in one of Christopher's articles or commentaries, search the forum for past discussions, and then occasionally search online or look at another commentary. I know this is dangerous though, so I don't take what I read in places like that as truth. I will look at the definitions and context to see if it makes sense. Usually just reading those will help my mind escape the box that I was viewing something in to see it in another way, not necessarily to take their comments as scripture themselves. I don't rely on such sources very often. To avoid taking this thread too far off topic, I will save examples from my current study for another post. If anyone has critiques of my study, suggestions, or other resources to share, please do!

[Timothy]

So I do have a couple of questions. Sometimes I was a little confused by Job's three friend's responses. It seemed like some of what they were saying was right, but it is clear that they were unjustified in some of what they said. Was it simply that because they were making judgements based on assumptions about Job? Did they ever say anything that was actually doctrinally false, possibly? I know I should go back and read these portions more slowly, because sometimes it was slightly hard for me to follow.

I haven't read Job in a while, but I remember having the same thoughts. As far as I can tell, Job's three friends were giving him mostly sound doctrine. The problem was that they were judging Job unrighteously by not having or giving any proof that he had done anything wrong. But Job ended up contending with God about the situation and justifying himself. I can certainly understand Job being angry although it wasn't good for to say what he did. But we don't know anything about Jobs sons and daughters. It did not say that they were righteous as Job was. There is no way to know for sure, but it could have been a way for God to pass judgment on them. Either way, what God decides to do or let happen is up to Him and He is forever righteous in His judgments.

Based exactly on those verses you highlighted, how Elihu was so patient and respectful to those who were older than him is something I admire. I still need to work on being more like that.

[Ellie]

Yes, understanding of scripture is a gift from the Holy Spirit! Most of my research is looking up definitions in Noah Webster's 1828 dictionary. The meaning of some words can be easily deciphered by the context, while others not so much, but I still find it helpful to look up the words I am not familiar with so I can get an even clearer understanding. If there is a verse or phrase that I have re-read and still do not understand I will pray, search for corresponding scripture, search the CLE website to see if it is mentioned in one of Christopher's articles or commentaries, search the forum for past discussions, and then occasionally search online or look at another commentary. I know this is dangerous though, so I don't take what I read in places like that as truth. I will look at the definitions and context to see if it makes sense. Usually just reading those will help my mind escape the box that I was viewing something in to see it in another way, not necessarily to take their comments as scripture themselves. I don't rely on such sources very often. To avoid taking this thread too far off topic, I will save examples from my current study for another post. If anyone has critiques of my study, suggestions, or other resources to share, please do!

Oh okay, thanks for sharing about how you research, Laura, that is helpful!

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I haven't read Job in a while, but I remember having the same thoughts. As far as I can tell, Job's three friends were giving him mostly sound doctrine. The problem was that they were judging Job unrighteously by not having or giving any proof that he had done anything wrong. But Job ended up contending with God about the situation and justifying himself. I can certainly understand Job being angry although it wasn't good for to say what he did. But we don't know anything about Jobs sons and daughters. It did not say that they were righteous as Job was. There is no way to know for sure, but it could have been a way for God to pass judgment on them. Either way, what God decides to do or let happen is up to Him and He is forever righteous in His judgments.

Based exactly on those verses you highlighted, how Elihu was so patient and respectful to those who were older than him is something I admire. I still need to work on being more like that.

Timothy,
Yes, that is what I thought. I understand his anger too, but you're right. He got progressively worse in his anger towards God throughout the book.

And yes I thought those verses were helpful. I often think about how I am pretty young compared to a lot of Christians (that I know of), and sometimes it makes me nervous because I feel that I won't know how to approach certain situations considering the fact that I haven't been saved for very long, and also am young in age. So I pray that God would give me wisdom in those areas.