CLE Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: creationliberty on April 17, 2018, 09:27:47 AM
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I remember listening to Ray Comfort many years ago teaching repentance as grief and godly sorrow, but the problem is that over the years, I've found other contradictory statement from him on that matter. Here's one of them he published on his facebook account; I already have my own analysis of this, but I want to see what you all find strange about this (outside of the obvious that he uses new-age bible versions):
https://www.facebook.com/official.Ray.Comfort/posts/745299918823817 (https://www.facebook.com/official.Ray.Comfort/posts/745299918823817)
"For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death" (2 Corinthians 7:10).
This is a key verse when it comes to our salvation. The erroneous modern message has been "Just give your heart to Jesus, it's that easy," while the biblical gospel says the opposite. Jesus warned us to "strive" to enter the strait gate.
The Greek word used for strive is "agonizomai" from which we derive the word "agonize." It's not easy to be born again. Like child-birth for baby and mother, it's a difficult process of "mourning" and "heaviness."
In addressing the unsaved, the Bible says, "Cleanse your hands you sinners. Let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness." Adulterous King David's penetrant prayer of Psalm 51 wasn't born out of a superficial sorrow.
On careful reflection of my own conversion, I have looked back and concluded that although I didn't weep in sorrow for my many transgressions, I did show the genuineness of my mourning by turning from sin, something called "fruit of repentance."
The Scriptures admonish us to make sure we are genuinely saved. Have you done that, or are you a stranger to biblical repentance? Of all the things in life of which we should be sure, it should be our eternal salvation.
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He acknowledges that no sorrow was involved in his conversion so he seems to believe that is one definition of repentance but he chooses to accept that repentance being "to turn" ie "I did show the genuineness of my mourning by turning from sin" is Biblical repentance. He also appears to be linking works to the repentance needed for salvation i.e. "strive". He is critical of the "Just give your heart to Jesus, it's that easy," movement but turns around and says he showed his genuineness by just turning from sin. It was that easy; he makes it sound like he just woke up and decided turning from sin sounded like a good idea. How did he know he was in sin and needed to turn. There's too much wrong with his what he said ...
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I understood that fruit of repentance IS the Godly sorrow we feel over the sins we have done and the sinful nature we find ourselves with. AND the realisation of the fact that Christ payed the punishment for those sins!!
How can you be forgiven if sin is not acknowledged is that way. Many ungodly people f.e. stop their addiction on their own, so they turned from their sin, but they did NOT get born again in Christ.
Act 26:20, But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
Here it says: turn to God! (not away from sin)
And it does say that we should have works meet for repentance. I believe those are the practical deeds that follow the realisation of sin, like asking for forgiveness to those we have hurt, giving back things we have stolen, etc. I might be wrong on that, but that is my understanding.
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But he does teach that repent means to turn from sin. I've already documented it. He teaches on the street that repent means godly sorrow, but in his doctrine, he teaches everyone else to turn from sin. I agree with Sil, and that's exactly what I was thinking too, that it seemed to preach works. Even though I know he would say that's not the case, that's the logical conclusion based on what he just said. The problem is that we're talking about conversion, which means "to turn/change," and he's mixing that up with repentance, which is a different matter concerning salvation.
Basically, he's saying he never had grief and godly sorrow for his sin, but he did works, so that made up for it. Folks, it grieves me at my heart to say that Ray Comfort is not of Christ, but the more I look closely at what he teaches and what he does, the more evidence is piling up. (i.e. He accepts leaven, yokes together with worldly false converts like Joyce Meyer and Kirk Cameron, etc.)
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You know, the more I think about it, the more I've come to the conclusion that it would be impossible for anyone who truly IS of Christ to have any kind of huge following in the world.
John 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. 19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. 20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. 21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me. 22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin. 23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
This tells me that anyone who is loved by the world is of the world and cannot be of Christ. I hate that it has to be that way but that's just the way it is. And that's also why you, Chris, will never have a huge following, either. If you did, we'd have to start worrying that you were doing something wrong.
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That may not be true, depending on your definition of "huge." What the worldly churchgoers look at is the Day of Pentecost with thousands getting saved in one day. What Paul told us to look to is prophesying (i.e. delivering the truth of the Word with interpretation, instruction, rebuke, and sanctification).
Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
-1Co 14:1
And if we look at the Old Testament prophets, the only people that really liked them were the poor and needy; and even then, those that listened were few, as Christ put it:
But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.
-Mark 6:4
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What I meant by a 'huge' following is someone most people would recognise if they heard the name. Ray Comfort may not be as big as someone like Joel Osteen but most people have at least heard of him, even if they've never heard him speak or are not familiar with what he teaches. I'm sure hanging out with Kirk Cameron has helped his popularity, too.
Most of the world really don't want to hear the truth when it's more comfortable to live a lie.
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When I was in that rehab center, they would always put on Ray Comfort videos. When it comes to him, he is one of the sneakiest false teachers because of his 'bait-and-switch' tactic on repentance. I had red flags go up when I saw how he yoked up with Kirk Cameron and not to mention his entertainment style of production. I've noticed that his on-the-street footage with dialogue seems to draw a lot of emotion from professing Christians; almost dangerously so. As I said, definitely made for the purpose of "christian" entertainment with a strong sense of reinforcing the churchianity type of evangelism.
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When Ray Comfort likened gogly sorrow and repentance and he was sorry for sin,sure Judas repented himself,and took back the 30 pieces of silver in Matthew 27:3 but it was worldly sorrow and not true godly sorrow and he hanged himself.When Simon Peter denied the Lord Jesus Christ and wept bitterly in Matthew 26:75 sorrowed after a godly sort and he returned to the Lord.When worldly sorrow is taught as being godly sorrow,does it not then become works based?
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I cannot make sense of your post. I mean, the sentences... they seem like sentence fragments. I can't make sense of what you said.
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Really sorry about that Chris,being pathetic at trying to explain things my english can be hard to work out with puctuation etc,i'll try and explain differently.
If Ray Comfort in any way explains repentance as being sorry for sin,in what sense would he mean "being sorry" and to turn?Judas repented himself as it says in Matthew 27:3 and gave back the 30 pieces of silver but obviously that was only worldly sorrow as he went and hanged himself.Simon Peter on the other hand when he denied the Lord Jesus wept bitterly in Matthew 26:75 but he wept after a godly sort and was true repentance.I have saw Ray Comfort tell people to repent.The girl in that 180 movie about abortion,it seemed more like she was crying more out of the pulling of the girls heart strings by the way it was explained and not true godly sorrow that she would genuinely come to the foot of the cross and she would become a new creature.He told her as far as i remember to confess her sins and turn from them,but it seems now looking back that the girl felt sorry for herself because she was pro choice and changed her mind at that time at least.Correct me if i'm wrong ,but,would that not have come more out of pressure which would then become works based leading to false converts?
I hope this made more sense.
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Jesus doesn't have "godly" sorrow in the sense that it is meant by Paul in 2Co 7. The sorrow of a godly sort is that which sorrows because of sin, and Jesus had no sin because He is God.
I can't answer to your final question because I don't know anything about "the girl in that 180 movie."
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No problem Chris,My point is that Ray Comfort kind of subtley sneaks up on people who are lost and uses their emotions to either get angry or sad and make a decision.I think it was Charles Finey who started that first. Ray Comfort has been with Joyce Meyor on her show a while back.I've tried to find the video to copy and paste but it's vanished strangely.The whole WOTM team have either compramised or their true fruit is just now showing,
I never said or meant if it looked like it in my post that Jesus has godly sorrow,he is God".
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WOTM?
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Way of the Master
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Yes Way of the Master.