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« on: July 13, 2018, 04:35:39 AM »
Hi Ruth,
I don't mind the question at all. Several months after I arrived in Korea, I met a young man that sort of worked for me. I was the equivalent of a manager and one of my supervisors had a guy that worked for him. Well, this young man, named Daniel, heard me talking to the team one day; It was around Aug 2016, so it was about 16 months after I heard heard the Word of God for the first time.
So this particular day when I had pulled everybody in and told them that I would not put up with dishonesty and basically gave my expectations for how professionals should act. I was using terms that unbelievers don't use; I used words like debauchery and wickedness when I described events they could get into during their off time and ruin their careers.
Well, this caught the ear of Daniel. He began to visit me in my office and I got excited to talk about Jesus and Scripture. After a few weeks, he offered to help me with some vehicle repairs. The garage was about a 2-hour drive from where we were located.
On the way up, I had some sermons ready, download from online preachers, I was still very young in faith, so I listened to a lot of audio sermons.
Anyway, after the sermon, he began to dispute some of the things he heard, and we had some discussion.
I remember one specific question on the ride up, he said, do you think your pastor (the pastor of the Fundamental Baptist Church I was currently attending), will Baptize me in the name of Jesus?
I was a bit confused.. I said, "I think so, I mean, how else would he do it?"
He said, "because in Acts, the Apostles only baptized in the name of JESUS ONLY, not Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (or Ghost)"
I had never even considered this doctrine, or studied the matter so I had no opinion, other than what Jesus Christ said in Matthew 28:19:
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
There was some other small talk, we got to the other base and fixed the car, eat lunch, etc.
Then proceeded on the way home later that afternoon.
After driving about 30 mins, I asked if he wanted to stop and get some coffee at this nice island rest stop in the middle of a bridge (in Korea).
He said sure. So after we get the coffee, we're sitting at a bench and I said something to this effect;
"It would be amazing when Christ returns and we get glorified bodies... I really hate sin, in that day when we put off corruptible and put on incorruptible will be such a glorious day, because I don't want to ever have the inclination of sin in my flesh. As much as I long for that day, I pray He will allow me to return to my wife and kids so I can teach my children in the way they should go, so they will not depart. I guess thats my only want for now; that my family will be saved"
His eyes got really BIG! He said are you serious? You are not afraid of the Lords return?
I said, "I'm not afraid for me, but I'm afraid for my family. I don't know if they are saved."
He said, "But you are not even saved! You told me on the way up, that you don't speak in tongues! So if Jesus comes back right now, you will be burning in hell!"
Well, I was by no means any sort of expert in the definition of tongues, Whether it was for today's Christians or not?, if the gifts were still applicable?, if they faded away as the Apostolic period ceased? However, I did know a few things...
He continued to reference The Acts of the Apostles, and 1 Cor 14 continuously... from that comment about Baptism, to the comment about Pentecost and the tongues that descended on the upper room.
I pointed out that Paul opposes the way Pentecostals operate today in their church buildings... I showed him in Acts 2, the "tongues" were real earthly languages. I mean, LOOK! The Bible lists the tongues they were speaking! I opened 1 Cor 14 and read to him slowly that its two, no more than three and not without an interpreter. If there is no interpreter, then they are to remain silent. I pointed out that all things must be done orderly. That Paul says without an interpreter, if an unbeliever came into the building, they would say you all are like barbarians, Scripture says, tongues ARE A SIGN FOR UNBELIEVERS, I already believe.
I pointed out Paul says tongues is to edify the church, if they don't understand your speech, then its a selfish display of a gift. If it is in an unknown language, the church cannot say Amen. I told him we have the Word of God, there is no new revelation, etc.
Secondly, and most importantly, I said, but the book/chapter your are quoting from is concerning spiritual gifts, not salvation.
He said, tongues is the evidence of salvation.
I don't know, maybe it was, but Ephesians 2:8-10, said I am saved through faith, the gift of God. Created unto good works.
All I can say, is I used to live with no regard to Jesus Christ, now I seek to allow Him to be Glorified through me. The preaching of the Word of Truth is foolishness to those that perish... I love the Word of God.
The Bible says, the Spirit gives the gifts, to some he gives prophecy, to some he gives interpretation, to some tongues. If I don't speak in (an unknown language), it's because God didn't gift me with that. But the subject of salvation should not be confused with the subject of gifts.
The conversation was very long... but in the end, he was unrelenting and stood firmly that without "tongues" I was doomed to eternal fire.
It's interesting, most people miss the hyperbole in Paul's Epistles, for example 1Cor13:1
Though I speak with tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass or a tinkling cymbal.
Look at the next verse:
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand ALL mysteries, and ALL knowledge;
Do you think Paul has "ALL Understanding? and ALL knowledge?"
That would make him God wouldn't it? The same logic can be applied to verse 1.
Charasmatics claim they are speaking an "angelic language".
Show me in the Bible where the angels spoke and man could not understand. I haven't found it. Look at Luke 1:28 for an example,
"And the angel came in unto her, and said, "Hail, thou are highly favored, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women."
When angels speak in Scripture, it is understandable.
In conclusion to your question, I was never influenced by charismatics but I was introduced to them, by way of a young man named Daniel that told me I required the gift of tongues to be saved.
According to Daniel, Even if I am following the commandments of The Lord Jesus Christ, I am not saved.
My wife is from the Philippines, her native tongue is Tagalog.
If she had the biblical "gift of tongues", she could walk into a Chinese village and speak perfect Cantonese or Mandarine (unknown tongues for her).
Not the gibberish you typically hear from the Pentecostal churches around the world.
I believe tongues (the unbiblical tongues seen in todays church buildings) are also spoken around the world by many shamans and tribes people (who are not of God), therefore, I reject that doctrine as heresy.
Thanks for asking!
Chris
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