CLE Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Zoologistkid on January 19, 2019, 10:03:41 AM
-
I was on the Answers in Genesis website and saying that the claims that they are using Tax dollars to build the Ark are nothing more than a bald-faced lie. They have lied in the past, I would like to know if they are lying in this instance like they are on the topics of holidays, new-age bible versions, lexicons/concordances, and so on. I do think they are lying because of the fact that many of these so-called Christians do many unbiblical things like yoking up with FOc3 organizations.
-
I'm not sure what you were saying.
Is AiG claiming that they ARE, or ARE NOT, using tax dollars in their ministry.
-
Yes, I am sorry for not explaining further, I would like to know if they are lying.
-
What is AiG's statement that is in question?
-
That the claim is nothing more than a lie.
-
If AiG is a tax-exempt organization I believe that means that they simply don't pay certain taxes, while other similar businesses do pay those taxes.
So I guess the question is, is not paying taxes the same as receiving tax money? I don't think so.
However, I'm not sure that is precisely what is going on.
Additionally, the government does not give an organization tax exemption for no reason. It is definitely not out of the kindness of their heart. Some sort of compromise or concession is required.
-
He's not asking about tax exemption; he's asking if Ham and his crew used tax funding to build their giant useless boat. And the answer is: Yes, they did. If they said on their website that they didn't, then they are liars because I have been slowly saving up information to one day, maybe, do a "Wolves in Costume: Ken Ham" teaching to fully expose him. I have the documentation with AiG letterhead stating that they would be using a system which is called "Tax Increment Financing," in which the local county pays a certain amount for the construction of an attraction under the gamble that in 20-30 years, the economy of the county would boost, and business owners would make back the money through increased tourist activity.
-
Thank you, Chris, because I knew they were probably lying about that but I needed confirmation about it. AIG and Ham are saying the fact they did use TAX funds is nothing more than a lie from the atheists, secular humanists, evolutionists, and more. They have even said that "our new year's resolution is to be more for biblical authority" or something like that. They even claimed to fight new age philosophies and other things, which show them off to be liars. LIke trying to fight Planned Parenthood while at same time yoked up with Planned Parenthood.
-
I have a question. Do the boat actually flotation or just a building shape as a boat?
I stop trusting any ministry that has some kind of museum. Every instance I have found they are not true born again. But con men to make a quick buck.
-
I can understand when people make an actual working ark, but their ark is as seaworthy as my pet cat, Lily.
-
How disappointing, all that money spent and they couldn't even get it to float
-
I visited a copy of the ark in The Netherlands. It was laying in the water. I believe I read that they moved it to another place over water. I am not sure if what you are talking about is the same one?
-
I do not know they had one in the Netherlands. Is it by the same ministry?
-
I was talking about Ken Ham's unbiblical useless land boat in Kentucky.
-
I can understand when people make an actual working ark, but their ark is as seaworthy as my pet cat, Lily.
Genesis 6:14 KJV Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt 👉pitch it within and without with pitch👈.
A coating of ugly pitch wouldn't have been as aesthetically appealing.
Apparently Ken Ham didn't want to spoil the beautiful wood grain finish.
So much for authenticity. :(
-
It is not even built to scale. The top window should be a lot smaller then it is. But having it to the right size just wont look that good.
-
The ark was moved from Dordrecht , The Netherlands to South America. It was built by Johan Huibers, through a foundation. And there is some collaboration with Ark of Noah Foundation in Pasadena, Californi
-
With the current discussion I finally remembered and got around to having a look at this
https://www.google.co.nz/search?ei=Z29NXNjsHMmw9QOPuKo4&q=%22Dordrecht%22+%22South+America%22+%22Ark%22&oq=%22Dordrecht%22+%22South+America%22+%22Ark%22&gs_l=psy-ab.12...4453.10445..12708...0.0..0.292.1428.2-6......0....1..gws-wiz.......33i160j33i21.h7X32-47RMg
https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-ideas/weird-and-wacky/a-huge-boat-inspired-by-noahs-ark-is-heading-for-america/news-story/47a298ea5c454523ff315d225bfa3b33
Possibly quite OK for a non-Christian to do it as a money making venture like any other museum, but it would be quite wrong for a "Christian" to do it thinking it is going to lead people to Christ (as Chris has already pointed out). I sure hope that with it having been done as a purely secular building project that it has had the spin-off of leading some to Christ and a very solid and mature standing at that.
Thanks for posting that Masha, unless you had posted it I would have been completely unaware of it and I found it interesting if nothing else.
-
Hiya all,it's been a while since i've been on the forum but i came across this online recently about Ken Ham and Eric Hovind.
https://creationtoday.org/ham-and-hovind-get-sparks-to-fly-on-tbn/
Hopefully the link opens ok.I read on reformation Charrolette that Ken Ham will be partnering with TBN earlier today also.
https://reformationcharlotte.org/2019/02/04/ken-ham-partnering-with-tbn-anti-christ-network/?fbclid=IwAR2jWaCM-cVNWF9QhKea2RsF1F0AARdMiYsx3355G6ghZM5VHgmKA022xbY
-
I'll add that to my notes; thanks for bringing it to my attention. Not surprising; birds of a leavened feather flock together.
-
I noticed something that rose a few red flags in the second article:
Discernment is dead today. If Ken Ham can make a coherent argument against Tim Kellers attack on the literal biblical creation account, argue against the slaughtering of innocent children in the womb, and present the gospel in a way that even an idiot like Bill Nye can understand, how can he not see that these charlatans hes partnering with are out to devour the very sheep hes out to defend?
The Bible is clear, we dont partner with false teachers simply because they give us a platform to air our message. While I have no doubt that Ham would present his message in a clear way, he also will inadvertently at least hopefully lend credence to Matt and Lauri Crouch, who are nothing more than enemies of the faith
Yeah, discernment is dead if you think Ham did any of these things.
-
Cut off.
-
I fixed it, sorry should have looked closer.
-
I found the guy on the website, I haven't found his name, has played the greek game, supported wicked men, and believes this
What does it mean to repent? The word repent in the Greek is metanoeo, it means to changes ones mind or to change ones thinking. The way the word is used throughout the Bible is the action of changing allegiance. An unbeliever is a slave to sin, and when the unbeliever by the grace of God puts his/her faith in Christ they repent of their sin and the way they think of God has now changed. Their minds that were once darkened are now brought the light of God. The God that was once hated is now loved and adored. The message of the cross that was once foolishness is now the repentants only hope and plea.
It's the old change one's mind idea, which can never die.
-
I was blessed because I learned about built in dictionary in the bible before I knew what a concordence was. So I seen repent as to be in sorrow for sin. I never played the Greek game I can barely get English down little alone greek. Over all tho most of the men who are apart of answers in Genesis, are only there for the money. This is why I pull out of the hole creation grupe. It is all they talk about same thing over and over. The reason I work so hard to join this church is because this church advanced in learning in all subjects rather then 1. The creation movement has to be joint together equal yoked together if they are going to make any money. Teaching any other truth out side of there bubble will cost them money.
-
Remember, Billy, creationism is not the problem, but creationists are with their love of money and ridiculous beliefs. Also, over the years they have denied parts of the Bible like the firmament or how different the world was before the flood. Ironic is it not? They harp about uniformitarianism, unknowing it has effected them, too.
-
I just find it interesting that Ken Ham builds million dollar boats, while the church crowd builds million dollar "multi-purpose facilities/buildings"...
-
I just find it interesting that Ken Ham builds million dollar boats, while the church crowd builds million dollar "multi-purpose facilities/buildings"...
"Build it and they will come" and spend their money, of course.
-
Guys, I have a question, have you noticed how uniformitarianism has influenced these people. They won't reject young earth but they will reject many things like the canopy of ice or the floating forest, or even dinosaurs being alive today. They even started using a type of geologic column where if something doesn't past this specific point it is extinct like Dinosaurs. I have seen it many times, Have any of you encountered the hypocrisy of these people?
-
I have on some things. Other things I see it could be a lack of information like the canopy of ice for example. Instead of studying water they just come up with thirory. Or they changed something around so theIR ministry would sound a little different from the next guy. Or they are tryingto fit in what science say how it is to there philosophy
-
Hey guys, I have a question for all of you: what evidence exists that Ken Ham and his all of kind are not of Christ besides the giant useless boat?
-
Hey guys, I have a question for all of you: what evidence exists that Ken Ham and his all of kind are not of Christ besides the giant useless boat?
You mean besides the fact that they celebrate all the pagan holidays like Christmas and Easter, their refusal to rebuke the Catholic Church, their use of New Age Bible versions and their love of money? Not to mention that Ken Ham is a Baptist...
-
Yeah, besides those because those things are "normal" in the above ground "church" that lacks Jesus Christ himself. I am trying to gather information for my stories and I am trying to warn people why they should stay away from them. I need to find some evidence that makes it easier to say that many of these creationist organizations are not of Christ along with the creators of them.
-
I don't really understand what you're wanting here, because the creation ministries are all part of the mainstream churchianity thing. Whatever goes on in all the church buildings is the same thing that goes on in these creation ministries, so the reasons for staying away from the creation ministries are the same as those for staying away from any of the church buildings. There's nothing really unique to Ken Ham or Carl Wieland or any of these other creationists that you can't find anywhere else in churches.
-
Sorry for the trouble, Jeanne, because I thought there is something behind the scenes going on. I am sorry for getting you into this mess.
-
There are things going on behind the scenes in all of them. The surface problems you see are only on the surface, but it comes from an underlying problem of what takes place behind the scenes. Ken Ham is a marketer, not a minister; that's it.
-
Most of them are marketers first, whether it be in a 'creation ministry', a 'healing ministry' or a 'prophecy ministry'. Whatever their shtick/specialty is, that's what they promote and market to make money.
Maybe this guy's testimony of what he saw/heard/learned while working in the 'prophecy ministry' might help to explain things a bit more. Please understand that I do not agree with most of his teachings as he plays the Greek game, uses weird Bible versions and subscribes to a lot of the Hebrew Roots nonsense. This article gives some good insight into what goes on behind the scenes of a lot of these so-called 'ministries,' however.
http://www.honorofkings.org/elijah-list-testimony/
-
Hmm, I may have to read more on that testimony later; seems interesting. I can say from my own experience that once you begin to work with these various organizations, and see what really goes on behind the scenes, you have to NOT have the Spirit of God in order to remain in them in good conscience. During work hours, you will begin to see the deception in how they handle everyone as opposed to how they really are in real life, and you'll quickly find out that, if they are big money makers, how much prestige is profitable, whereas humility and honesty takes a back seat.
-
Thank you, Jeanne and Chris, because you have given me some really good information to bite into. However, you really have to be careful with this guy like you said, Jeanne, He plays the greek game, uses weird Bible versions, believes the Hebrew roots nonsense with the Torah, and worst of all he subscribes all sorts of strange doctrines like there eating clean meat. Wasn't Peter rebuke by God because of that?
Speaking of the Torah, isn't that full of witchcraft and the like?
-
Here is a little bit of what Chris went through from the CLE website:
As I began to branch out and teach the truth in all matters of Scripture, we began seeing gossiping going on behind our backs, lies being told behind our backs, blacklisting, backbiting, respecting persons, love of money, and much more coming mostly from church leadership. (This includes KJB Baptist pastors who are not 501c3, so don't be deceived!) We watched veteran pastors do completely unbiblical things in trying to accomplish their goals and justifying their wicked actions, so just when I started to give churches another shot, I found so much corruption, I couldn't justify being a part of what I was seeing.
http://www.creationliberty.com/about.php#testimony
There was a lot more detail on the old website before the hosting company shut down on what one particular 'pastor' did, such as promising to pay Chris and Lorraine's expenses for speaking at a conference in another city and then acting like he didn't know what they were talking about when Chris asked him about it later. They really were treated quite horribly.
-
Yeah, I read his testimony about Fred Boyd... was it? All I know I have let people know that many of these ministries are as corrupt as atheists.
-
Speaking of the Torah, isn't that full of witchcraft and the like?
Hi Caleb
It is possibly not my position to reply to you on this one and so I hope I'm not out of line. Being as kind to you as I possibly can, but it seems you have a serious flaw in Biblical understanding. You might gain quite a lot from going back and reading the first five books of the Bible again and that will give you a more accurate understanding of where witchcraft fits in with God's plan of redemption of mankind.
Also worth looking at is other sins that are considered to be as much of a sin as witchcraft.
I know you have ailments you have effectively had all your life so I'm not writing this in an unkind way and I hope it brings an extra measure of fullness to your life.
-
Sorry, I think I confused the Torah with the Talmud. I wasn't thinking straight enough to know the difference, my dog Brady was making a mess and I had to clean it up. I can get confused at times and that can lead to embarrassing situations, for example, an incident in high school. There was this girl, I forget her name, talking about how she needs to find a way to wash her clothes. I wanted to help so I came said, Why don't you to the Lingerie? I embarrassed myself, and her. I was only trying to say Laundromat and I confused the two. In other words, Kevin thank you for pointing that out I got the two very different things confused with each other.
-
Sorry, I think I confused the Torah with the Talmud. I wasn't thinking straight enough to know the difference, my dog Brady was making a mess and I had to clean it up.
:) That would explain it. I was really surprised by what you had written.