Show Posts
1
General Discussion / Exchange on "The Mark" (Telegram)
« on: March 01, 2022, 05:46:10 AM »
The following is a record of an exchange I recently had on Telegram. I posted it here because I wanted fellow believers to see & judge me & the matter.
It started with this post:
Dr. Zelenko came right out and said it.
😳👇🏼
https://www.redvoicemedia.com/video/2022/02/dr-zelenko-this-is-the-mark-of-the-beast-its-enslavement/
My response:
Revelation 14:9 KJV And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, I am not denying the evil of what is going on, but no one is getting jabbed in their hand or forehead. Please handle the word of God carefully because you have the power to mislead people and bring wrath upon yourself. It is dangerous.
Response (not from the person who posted the video): I will call them Party B
Silindile, if I may give you my personal opinion on the meaning of the mark being in the forehead or the hand is this: in ancient times, when Revelation was being written, slaves were marked either on the hand or sometimes on their forehead with a branding iron. This was done so that a slave could be easily identified. In other words, the important issue here is that a person is marked, permanently as belonging to a master which is not God. You do not need to receive a vaccine in your hand or forehead to fulfill this prophecy, you only need to be branded somehow (very obviously your body is marked in the most meaningful way possible, by means of your genes being changed so that everyone that is jabbed also share the same genetic make-up and it is irreversible). Further, your hand is a symbol of actions just as your forehead is a symbol of intelligent thought since the pre-frontal cortex of the brain, which is the center for the most advanced thought in a human is a symbol for that. So when the vaccine starts determining whether you may work or not and it also determines how you think then it has already become a mark. Many of those who have accepted this injection will have their thoughts and actions permanently controlled by the NWO. Thoughts = mark in the forehead. Actions = mark in the hand. Those going along with the NWO Agenda are mind-controlled (mark on the forehead) and they do the works of the beast by complying (mark on the hand). We cannot always interpret the Bible literally since many analogies, parables and symbols are used to make it's message understandable.
People who are jabbed are allowed world-wide to travel and to work, to trade and to sell while those who do not comply are denied participation in all the above. In many ways the transhumanist agenda is changing people to be something other than human, using even a gel in the jabs referred to Luciferace (Race of Lucifer). We need to not decide on behalf of others how the scriptures are to be interpreted since understanding of scripture comes from the revelation of the spirit and we should acknowledge that. I hope you will receive this message from me as I send it, with the greatest of spiritual love and respect.
My response:
I did not join this group to be contentious but it is hard sit back & watch the Word being blatantly mishandled because as I said before, it is dangerous, both to the hearers and the speaker. 2 Peter 2:1-3 KJV But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. [2] And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. [3] And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not." In fact, I am not deciding on scriptural interpretation for anyone, I precisely quoted God's word & issued a warning about the danger of mishandling God's word which can be clearly seen: Revelation 22:18-19 KJV For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: [19] And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
I am aware that the Bible can be taken literally and figuratively, in so much that I don't expect believers to sprout wool because of being called sheep but deciding that the mark is figurative doesn't make contextual sense. For example, in Revelation 13:17 it says that to buy or sell one must have the mark, name or the number of the beast. Let's say Zelenko is right and we are really dealing with the mark, where is the beast's number (one patent number linking biometrics and crypto surely cannot be the sole foundation for this conclusion), and where is the beast's name and what is it? In fact even more curious, where is the beast, is he also then figurative? Revelation 13 & 14 clearly demonstrate that the beast is not figurative in a number of ways, among them the fact that scripture refers to "his mark" & "his image" whatever this beast may be he is not merely "a system".
Receiving the beast is sufficient to condemn people to eternal suffering: Revelation 14:9-11 KJV And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, [10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: [11] And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Considering that fact, I continue warning that telling people what constitutes that mark should be approached very carefully, as should everything to do with scripture.
I acknowledge that scripture is interpreted through the Spirit; it is also interpreted by other scripture, because how does a Christian differentiate between their feelings & truth, except by the Word? (Isaiah 28:9-10 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:) You gave me your opinion about why Zelenko & you consider the technology to be the mark but when it comes to talking about God's Word should there not be at least one correlating scripture to support the truth of what was said? If everyone's opinions or feelings are sufficient to determine truth then there is no standard of truth. I would appreciate it if you support what you say with scripture so it can be weighed & sifted through the right prism.
In general, it matters little to me what people believe about the beast and his mark etc., the problem is publically spreading information that does not stand up to the light of scripture and deceiving the hearts of the simple (Romans 16:17-18). There are many people in this group & Dr Zelenko has many people that listen to him so, as much as it is within my power, I don't want people being deceived because it will lead God's name into disrepute because when people are spiritually deceived they don't usually just blame the person who deceived them, they also tend to blame God.
Focus on things like the mark of the beast also detracts & distracts from what the real problem is, which is that mankind lacks repentance (Godly grief & sorrow for sin - 2 Corinthians 7:9-10 KJV Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. [10] For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.) It is lack of repentance that blinds men & leads to acceptance of the mark. No matter how much anyone speaks about the mark & what it is or isn't no one will be prevented from getting it unless they are humbled to repentance & God has mercy on them.
The response from Party B: (Telegram wouldn't accept my post because it was too long so I put it into a MS Word document & sent that to the group, that is what she means by document.)
Sorry to tell you but a document is not conclusive evidence to me. People who wish to tell me how to believe and what to believe when they cannot conduct a logical bible based debate is wasting their time, and mine. You make several erroneous statements that are inaccurate and unkind. This is not how I would expect believers to react to others merely because you differ from a doctrinal standpoint. It rather comes across like an ego that wants to shove their viewpoint down others' throats. I did not miss the several slights/hidden insults in your dox. I would rather we all be aware and careful about the threat that the "beast system" holds to us as believers than be castigated for daring to differ from you. It seems a bit over the top to react like this merely because you believe that the mark will be inserted directly into a person's right hand and forehead. Extreme literal interpretations may ALSO lead people astray if the Bible's message was meant to be allegorical. Parable was the chief teaching method that Jesus employed during his earthly ministry, and He is the one giving the Revelation to the apostle John (using many, many parables, symbols and illustrations throughout from congregations compared to candlesticks to beasts rising from the sea to Babylon the Great compared to a harlot, riding a beast with seven heads and ten horns (surely you do not interpret all of these literally, do you?), so there is no reason to reject the concept of parable and symbols in Revelation just to try to make something fit your view. There is even less reason to accuse fellow believers of being false prophets and deceptive teachers when BOTH of us really have no way of being sure of exactly what every part of the prophecy means until we see it's fulfillment play out. Jesus said: by their fruits you will know them speaking of his disciples. Galatians 5 tells us that those fruits are: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. These are things that we can work on because these are the things that there can be no doubt about. Prophecy will be revealed in it's own good time. You cannot be the arbiter of it until then.
End of correspondence.
I was tempted to answer the accusations made against me but I decided that it wouldn't make any difference as my points were already made & not considered & it would have only been to make myself feel better/vengeful i.e. not charitable.
It started with this post:
Dr. Zelenko came right out and said it.
😳👇🏼
https://www.redvoicemedia.com/video/2022/02/dr-zelenko-this-is-the-mark-of-the-beast-its-enslavement/
My response:
Revelation 14:9 KJV And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, I am not denying the evil of what is going on, but no one is getting jabbed in their hand or forehead. Please handle the word of God carefully because you have the power to mislead people and bring wrath upon yourself. It is dangerous.
Response (not from the person who posted the video): I will call them Party B
Silindile, if I may give you my personal opinion on the meaning of the mark being in the forehead or the hand is this: in ancient times, when Revelation was being written, slaves were marked either on the hand or sometimes on their forehead with a branding iron. This was done so that a slave could be easily identified. In other words, the important issue here is that a person is marked, permanently as belonging to a master which is not God. You do not need to receive a vaccine in your hand or forehead to fulfill this prophecy, you only need to be branded somehow (very obviously your body is marked in the most meaningful way possible, by means of your genes being changed so that everyone that is jabbed also share the same genetic make-up and it is irreversible). Further, your hand is a symbol of actions just as your forehead is a symbol of intelligent thought since the pre-frontal cortex of the brain, which is the center for the most advanced thought in a human is a symbol for that. So when the vaccine starts determining whether you may work or not and it also determines how you think then it has already become a mark. Many of those who have accepted this injection will have their thoughts and actions permanently controlled by the NWO. Thoughts = mark in the forehead. Actions = mark in the hand. Those going along with the NWO Agenda are mind-controlled (mark on the forehead) and they do the works of the beast by complying (mark on the hand). We cannot always interpret the Bible literally since many analogies, parables and symbols are used to make it's message understandable.
People who are jabbed are allowed world-wide to travel and to work, to trade and to sell while those who do not comply are denied participation in all the above. In many ways the transhumanist agenda is changing people to be something other than human, using even a gel in the jabs referred to Luciferace (Race of Lucifer). We need to not decide on behalf of others how the scriptures are to be interpreted since understanding of scripture comes from the revelation of the spirit and we should acknowledge that. I hope you will receive this message from me as I send it, with the greatest of spiritual love and respect.
My response:
I did not join this group to be contentious but it is hard sit back & watch the Word being blatantly mishandled because as I said before, it is dangerous, both to the hearers and the speaker. 2 Peter 2:1-3 KJV But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. [2] And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. [3] And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not." In fact, I am not deciding on scriptural interpretation for anyone, I precisely quoted God's word & issued a warning about the danger of mishandling God's word which can be clearly seen: Revelation 22:18-19 KJV For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: [19] And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
I am aware that the Bible can be taken literally and figuratively, in so much that I don't expect believers to sprout wool because of being called sheep but deciding that the mark is figurative doesn't make contextual sense. For example, in Revelation 13:17 it says that to buy or sell one must have the mark, name or the number of the beast. Let's say Zelenko is right and we are really dealing with the mark, where is the beast's number (one patent number linking biometrics and crypto surely cannot be the sole foundation for this conclusion), and where is the beast's name and what is it? In fact even more curious, where is the beast, is he also then figurative? Revelation 13 & 14 clearly demonstrate that the beast is not figurative in a number of ways, among them the fact that scripture refers to "his mark" & "his image" whatever this beast may be he is not merely "a system".
Receiving the beast is sufficient to condemn people to eternal suffering: Revelation 14:9-11 KJV And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, [10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: [11] And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Considering that fact, I continue warning that telling people what constitutes that mark should be approached very carefully, as should everything to do with scripture.
I acknowledge that scripture is interpreted through the Spirit; it is also interpreted by other scripture, because how does a Christian differentiate between their feelings & truth, except by the Word? (Isaiah 28:9-10 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:) You gave me your opinion about why Zelenko & you consider the technology to be the mark but when it comes to talking about God's Word should there not be at least one correlating scripture to support the truth of what was said? If everyone's opinions or feelings are sufficient to determine truth then there is no standard of truth. I would appreciate it if you support what you say with scripture so it can be weighed & sifted through the right prism.
In general, it matters little to me what people believe about the beast and his mark etc., the problem is publically spreading information that does not stand up to the light of scripture and deceiving the hearts of the simple (Romans 16:17-18). There are many people in this group & Dr Zelenko has many people that listen to him so, as much as it is within my power, I don't want people being deceived because it will lead God's name into disrepute because when people are spiritually deceived they don't usually just blame the person who deceived them, they also tend to blame God.
Focus on things like the mark of the beast also detracts & distracts from what the real problem is, which is that mankind lacks repentance (Godly grief & sorrow for sin - 2 Corinthians 7:9-10 KJV Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. [10] For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.) It is lack of repentance that blinds men & leads to acceptance of the mark. No matter how much anyone speaks about the mark & what it is or isn't no one will be prevented from getting it unless they are humbled to repentance & God has mercy on them.
The response from Party B: (Telegram wouldn't accept my post because it was too long so I put it into a MS Word document & sent that to the group, that is what she means by document.)
Sorry to tell you but a document is not conclusive evidence to me. People who wish to tell me how to believe and what to believe when they cannot conduct a logical bible based debate is wasting their time, and mine. You make several erroneous statements that are inaccurate and unkind. This is not how I would expect believers to react to others merely because you differ from a doctrinal standpoint. It rather comes across like an ego that wants to shove their viewpoint down others' throats. I did not miss the several slights/hidden insults in your dox. I would rather we all be aware and careful about the threat that the "beast system" holds to us as believers than be castigated for daring to differ from you. It seems a bit over the top to react like this merely because you believe that the mark will be inserted directly into a person's right hand and forehead. Extreme literal interpretations may ALSO lead people astray if the Bible's message was meant to be allegorical. Parable was the chief teaching method that Jesus employed during his earthly ministry, and He is the one giving the Revelation to the apostle John (using many, many parables, symbols and illustrations throughout from congregations compared to candlesticks to beasts rising from the sea to Babylon the Great compared to a harlot, riding a beast with seven heads and ten horns (surely you do not interpret all of these literally, do you?), so there is no reason to reject the concept of parable and symbols in Revelation just to try to make something fit your view. There is even less reason to accuse fellow believers of being false prophets and deceptive teachers when BOTH of us really have no way of being sure of exactly what every part of the prophecy means until we see it's fulfillment play out. Jesus said: by their fruits you will know them speaking of his disciples. Galatians 5 tells us that those fruits are: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. These are things that we can work on because these are the things that there can be no doubt about. Prophecy will be revealed in it's own good time. You cannot be the arbiter of it until then.
End of correspondence.
I was tempted to answer the accusations made against me but I decided that it wouldn't make any difference as my points were already made & not considered & it would have only been to make myself feel better/vengeful i.e. not charitable.