CLE Forum
General Category => Introduce Yourself => Topic started by: AbidinginChrist on October 05, 2020, 11:09:27 PM
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Hello, my name is Melanie I’m from Salt Lake City Utah. I’m sure, by my being from Salt Lake, your first thought is, I must be an ex Mormon. But actually, I’m an ex Catholic. Being raised catholic, I have always known there was a God. My mother likes to tell the story of when I was three and we went to Easter mass. The sanctuary was full so we were in the Vestibule and all we could hear was the priest over the loudspeaker. Apparently, I turned to my mother and very loudly asked “mama, is that God?”
The first time I heard the gospel I was 17. A very nice Baptist man told me I needed to have a personal relationship with Christ. I was very offended He assumed I didn’t “know” Christ. I mean, I didn’t of course and I knew I didn’t. But, how did he know that?
Soon after that, my mother brother and I moved to the Bible belt to be with my grandfather. One by one they all got “saved” I was 19 and every time I turned around someone was telling me about Jesus. I knew I needed him, I also knew all of the “fun” I was having would come to an end. Lol
One evening my brother was talking to me about the Lord and I begin to cry. I don’t know what I prayed, I just knew I couldn’t run anymore. I walked away that evening a different person, I couldn’t stop saying “thank you Jesus” I started going to a pentecostal church with my brother and I got baptized. Everything was pretty awesome for a while. However, Fairly quickly I found myself deep in the “word of faith” movement. (I didn’t know that’s what it was called at the time) at first it was great. ( I should also mention at this point I didn’t read my Bible) soon I became a slave to my emotions. I was a mess, I was in constant doubt. constant fear. Eventually I just stopped going to church. I couldn’t deal with my failure at being a Christian.
I was in so much turmoil I started looking for anything that would give me relief. Crystals, yoga, I even gave aligning my chakras a go. I read “the secret“ I was willing to try anything in hope of regaining that blessed Peace that I experience when I first came to Christ. As you can probably guess, nothing worked.
In my desperation I decided to give the Bible another try. ( I have to laugh at myself) I decided to Set aside TV books and music and only read the Bible or listen to sermons for 40 days.
I was about two weeks into my 40days when I started to read second Timothy chapter 3. I was getting very uncomfortable with the list of Attributes that the lost in the last days would have, when I got to the part about the silly women. The one who are always learning but never coming to the knowledge of the truth.
I felt like somebody hit me in the gut. It’s suddenly became very clear, I was that silly woman. But, almost as suddenly I realized, I did have the knowledge of the truth. The truth is Jesus! it all came rushing back to me! I weeped for days. I threw out all my trashy books and crystals. All I wanted was the Lord.
The last few years have been an amazing time for me. It hasn’t always been easy. but at least my faith is built on a foundation of the word and Christ, not my emotions.
Anyways and there’s more to story but I’m running out of room.
The reason I am here, is I watched your video on the meaning of repentance. I thought it was awesome. It’s not some thing I heard before. Some pieces of my repentance fell in place. I wanted to hear more.
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The first time I heard the gospel I was 17. A very nice Baptist man told me I needed to have a personal relationship with Christ. I was very offended He assumed I didn't "know" Christ. I mean, I didn't of course and I knew I didn't. But, how did he know that?
Although having a relationship with God (which I would consider knowing God, being known of Him, studying His word and living according to His word) is a good thing, it is not the gospel of Jesus Christ. That Baptist man, no matter how kind he was to you, did not give you the gospel if that is all he told you. In the Bible, the apostles preached the gospel that you must repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. Jesus preached the same thing. They did not preach to have a relationship with him.
Acts 20:21 - Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
Mark 1:15 - And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Soon after that, my mother brother and I moved to the Bible belt to be with my grandfather. One by one they all got "saved" I was 19 and every time I turned around someone was telling me about Jesus. I knew I needed him, I also knew all of the "fun" I was having would come to an end. Lol
There are some things I'm not understanding about this. Why did you put "saved" in quotations when talking about your family? Was there some significance to that that you didn't explain? What is it you are trying to say when you wrote it that way? Also, when people were telling you about Jesus, what were they telling you about him? There is plenty to talk about Jesus, but that doesn't mean they were giving you the gospel.
The most concerning part about this paragraph is this.
I also knew all of the "fun" I was having would come to an end. Lol
When you say "fun", what is it you are talking about? Most importantly, why did you laugh about it ("Lol" means "laugh out loud" for those that don't know)? If my assumption of what you mean by "fun" is true, I'm not understanding why you are laughing about it.
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Hi Timothy thanks for your reply. Not as welcoming as I was expecting, But first Peter tells us to be ready to give an answer to anybody who asks for the reason for the hope we have in us. You should know doing this
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Your post was cut off. If you are using a phone, any apostrophes and quotes can cut off the post so you will have to retry your response without the apostrophes. Using a desktop computer or laptop can help if you have access to one.
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I am replying it on phone.. that was why my first post took so many times. I will lay off the apostrophes. Thanks :)
My first post took several tries I think they got less informative by my third attempt.
Im also having problems with Making a quote. So instead Ill take it in sections (I dont have access to a laptop I drive for a living)
Section 1 The nice Baptist man actually did tell me the gospel over our many conversations. I was illustrating that My take away My take away was, I didnt have a relationship with The Lord that he had. But, I knew needed one. Also, keep in mind I was laughing at myself and my stupidity.
Section 2 Not sure why I put saved in quotes. I was tired and I was trying to convey my understanding Not all who say a prayer are saved.
Section 3 this was me laughing at myself again. I thought I thought I was having fun, But really I was just a sinner greedy for my sin. I didnt know that relationship with the one true God was better than anything in this world.
What I wanted to express in my post was I wanted a relationship with the lord. But, when I wasnt reading the Bible I fell in to al manner of lies and false teaching. And when the Lord showed me in his word that I was sinning against him, I was sick And I beg forgiveness. He Gave it to me even though I didnt deserve it.
I hope that clears it up. let me know if you have more questions.
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My first post took several tries I think they got less informative by my third attempt.
Yep, I've done that before. Although, my posts are usually so detailed, I just give up after a point. However, if you were working on a computer, you can actually hit the back button, and everything you wrote should still be in the box you typed it in. I'm not sure how that works on phones.
Im also having problems with Making a quote. So instead Ill take it in sections (I dont have access to a laptop I drive for a living)
The little buttons above the box you type in things have all sorts of features. The button with the text bubble on it is the quote button.
The nice Baptist man actually did tell me the gospel over our many conversations. I was illustrating that My take away My take away was, I didnt have a relationship with The Lord that he had. But, I knew needed one. Also, keep in mind I was laughing at myself and my stupidity.
But Tim was asking what specifically he taught, and I would like to know too because I agree with Tim. When someone is preaching, "You need a personal relationship with Jesus," that is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and if you want to say that it is, I will listen to your argument, but I would like you to quote Scripture on that. I can show you were Jesus and His disciples taught repentance (i.e. godly sorrow) and remission (i.e. forgiveness) of sins, but I cannot show you any Scripture where Jesus said "You need a personal relationship with me." I am not saying that a born again Christian's relationship with Jesus Christ is not personal from a conceptual standpoint, but that is not what is taught in Scripture for the preaching of God's Word. So if you have something you would like to share on the Scriptures, I would be interested to read that.
Not sure why I put saved in quotes. I was tired and I was trying to convey my understanding Not all who say a prayer are saved.
That makes sense, and I agree, not all who say a prayer are saved.
this was me laughing at myself again. I thought I thought I was having fun, But really I was just a sinner greedy for my sin. I didnt know that relationship with the one true God was better than anything in this world.
I think this is where Tim started to discern that something was off, and I will confess, when I read your testimony this morning, I got the same impression as Tim did. Tim works quite a bit at his job, so I don't know if he got time to explain it as thoroughly as he wanted to, but again, what you are saying there is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ. What I mean is that to say, "I am a greedy sinner, and therefore, I need a personal relationship with Jesus," is NOT the Gospel, that is not repentance, and that is not what it means to be born again.
Of course, there are some people who have come here who have not had much experience expressing themselves in writing, and that's alright. But we have to point these things out because we want to make sure that all have heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and that's also because we care more about your soul than whether or not you like us.
In your first post, you said you came here because you had read/heard my teaching on repentance, and you "wanted to hear more." Assuming that is true, let me explain more.
What I wanted to express in my post was I wanted a relationship with the lord.
The problem with that is you were claiming to have sought God before repentance of sin. I don't know if you noticed or not, but even when you mentioned repentance in your first post, your post never contained any words like of sin, wrongdoing, corruption, wickedness, guilt, the law... or any other words along those lines. Other Christians who come here have no problem addressing those things because they understand what they were saved from, and when someone preaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ, those things cannot be avoided because:
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
-Gal 3:24
The reason for this is because the law is the knowledge of sin:
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
-Rom 3:10
With the knowledge of sin, we can understand our own wickedness and corruption:
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
-Rev 3:17
Therefore, when we understand how wretched we are, that brings us to (not just sorrow, but) GODLY sorrow, which is breaks us down in tears of grief and humility towards Him, and then through faith, we are born again anew in Christ.
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
-Mark 1:15
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
-John 3:3
This is why, when Jesus was approached by a man and asked how he could get to heaven, Jesus did not say, "Well, you need to get to know me better and have a personal relationship," but rather, He gave him the law:
And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
-Mat 19:16-19
Thus, the "Baptist man" who supposedly "told you the Gospel" did not teach you the proper Gospel of Jesus Christ because he does not know it himself, and therefore, because you still believe him, it provides us evidence that you do not understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ either. That Baptist man might have learned a bunch of things about the Bible, but he has not come to knowledge of the truth:
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
-2Ti 3:5-7
So getting back to my point, what was the problem with your statement that you "wanted a relationship with the lord?" The Bible says the opposite:
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
-Rom 3:10-12
Thus, after reading your posts, I have gotten an impression from you that you will have to correct if what I am about to say is incorrect. My impression is this: "Melanie knew her whole life that she needed to seek Jesus, then one day, she accepted it." That was the general impression I got from your testimony, and I can assure you that, according to Scripture, that is not how people are saved.
Now, of course, if you have written something accidentally, or if you forgot to talk about something when you were writing, or anything along those lines, let us know. However, if you think that what you presented to us was the Gospel of Jesus Christ, we are going to be at odds because there are a lot of people here who study Scripture, and very likely, all of them will not be agreement with you.
when the Lord showed me in his word that I was sinning against him, I was sick And I beg forgiveness. He Gave it to me even though I didnt deserve it.
I hope that is the case, but that was not the testimony you gave initially, so that is why there is a lot of confusion for us right now.
In response to Tim, you were offended, saying, "Not as welcoming as I was expecting," but I would respond that your testimony was, "Not as Biblical as we were expecting." That is because, to us, how we feel about a matter is not anywhere near as important to us as what the Word of God says about a matter, and that your soul is more important than feeling welcomed.
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
-Psa 19:7
The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.
-Pro 11:30
If I may borrow your words, "I hope that clears it up. Let me know if you have more questions."
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This may take a few posts to answer. Please be patient with me, I
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Oh boy, these contractions are killing me. Let me try again. I going to respond as best I can. However it may take a few posts to do it. I will let you know when I
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Oh boy, these contractions are killing me. Let me try again. I going to respond as best I can. However it may take a few posts to do it. I will let you know when Im finished, then you can let me have it! Lol
I will start out by saying I agree with you, my language is not as precise as I would like. This is something I am praying about and working on.
You mentioned my offense at your initial response. You are right I was shocked and even a little hurt. especially after I spent so much time trying to connect. I even considered not answering.
But then the Lord brought to my mind 1 Peter 3:15 Be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks for the hope you have in Christ.
You forgot to mention this part in your rebuke.
So instead of following my flesh which wanted to be offended. instead I followed the Bibles instructions and tried to answer your Questions.
I cant help but notice, rather than see the work of the Holy Spirit. you used my confession as a club to hit me with.
Next, you surmised my testimony into I wanted to have a relationship with the Lord my whole life and finally came to the conclusion I didnt have one.
I agree, that is part of my testimony. But you forgot the second half where the Lord brought me to repentance with the word.
You seemed to like it when I rephrased it in my second post. But then you doubted my sincerity saying that was not a part of my original testimony. Sorry brother, that is not true.
* if I could figure out how to do the quote thing I would put the section Of my original post here*
If you reread my original post you will see that I even mentioned the The book and chapter that God used to show me my sin. (2 Timothy chapter 3)
Im not quite done, I need to move my truck.
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You mentioned my offense at your initial response. You are right I was shocked and even a little hurt. especially after I spent so much time trying to connect. I even considered not answering.
That was not my initial response; that was Tim's initial response. Tim and I are not the same person.
But then the Lord brought to my mind 1 Peter 3:15 Be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks for the hope you have in Christ.
You forgot to mention this part in your rebuke.
I did not forget to mention that because that was not part of what I was addressing. Is there a particular reason you require that I bring up 1Pe 3:15? I saw where you mentioned "first Peter" to Tim, but that had no relevance to what was being discussed. The reason I did not bring that up is because no one here is asking you to give a reason for the hope that is in you, but rather, we are asking you about what you believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ is, and as far as I can tell, in your response to my comment, you still have not addressed that point.
That is strange to me because other Christians who have joined us love talking about that subject, but you seem to be expecting us to automatically accept everything you say, and not to question you in any sense, so you can feel good about being here. That's not what we are here for, and that is certainly not why we created this forum.
I cant help but notice, rather than see the work of the Holy Spirit. you used my confession as a club to hit me with.
I have not seen the work of the Holy Spirit yet. The work of Holy Spirit is defined in Scripture, because Scripture is authored by the Holy Ghost, and some things you wrote contradicted Scripture (which I demonstrated to you), but so far, you have been unwilling to address those things. You said "I will start out by saying I agree with you," but then you proceed to argue against me in the rest of your post, which is contradictory and raises other concerns.
So instead of following my flesh which wanted to be offended. instead I followed the Bibles instructions and tried to answer your Questions.
If you addressed that to me, I am not following you. I do not see where you tried to answer anything I said as of yet.
Next, you surmised my testimony into I wanted to have a relationship with the Lord my whole life and finally came to the conclusion I didnt have one.
I agree, that is part of my testimony. But you forgot the second half where the Lord brought me to repentance with the word.
Are you reading it too quickly? Because you missed the entire point of what I was saying. You declared what you believed was the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and that contradicted what the Gospel of Jesus Christ says. I pointed those things out to you, showed you that you defended yourself in conversation with Tim that the "Baptist man" taught you the true Gospel (which was a false gospel, based on what you told us), and now turn around and claim that you agree with me on what I said when I pointed out that it was a false Gospel. Those are contradictory statements, and thus, I still do not understand what you believe.
This is why I am seeing something odd about your testimony and responses, but I cannot put my finger on exactly what it is. That is why I first offered a presumption that it was just poor communication in writing, but the more you post, the more cautious I am becoming.
You seemed to like it when I rephrased it in my second post. But then you doubted my sincerity saying that was not a part of my original testimony. Sorry brother, that is not true.
What's not true? It's not true that I made those statements? You are not being clear. I don't know what to make of this.
If you reread my original post you will see that I even mentioned the The book and chapter that God used to show me my sin.
I do not need to reread it. I noticed that the first time, and that's why I quoted from 2Ti 3 to help you understand the fullness of the matter.
Im not quite done, I need to move my truck.
I hope you are okay because it's been two hours since you gave your response; that's a long distance to move a truck.
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I apologize For the late reply. I drive a truck it takes preparation to stop. Im sorry my testimony sounds fake Or insincere to you. I dont know what to tell you except I know in whom I have placed my trust. I know that Christ took my sin upon him on the cross. I also know the Lord brought me to repentance. Im not going to defend myself anymore its pointless, im not important, I would rather talk about Jesus has done. Sorry you think I was arguing with you, I was trying to clear things up. I do like your video it really resonated with me. I hope your ministry Leads many lost To repentance and faith in Christ. Lords Peace and grace to you.
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Hi Timothy thanks for your reply. Not as welcoming as I was expecting
I know that my reply is not very welcoming and I'm open for correction from anyone if I was out of line in what I've said or being harsh in any way. I'm not trying to make anyone feel unwelcomed, but the gospel is important to all of us here and I wanted to be sure you understood the true gospel instead of believe in a false one. Also, I don't want any others to be deceived into thinking that having a relationship with God is the same as the gospel. That is why I pointed that out. This and the questions I was asking was to help clarify what you actually believe. It wasn't to attack you in any way.
Section 3 this was me laughing at myself again. I thought I thought I was having fun, But really I was just a sinner greedy for my sin. I didnt know that relationship with the one true God was better than anything in this world.
My assumption was right about what you meant about "having fun". You were talking about sin. The reason I was questioning this is because those who have come to repentance don't laugh at the fact that they have sinned and treat it so lightly when they give their testimony. At least, it doesn't make sense to me for a repentant person to do that.
In the parable of the publican and the Pharisee, the publican didn't laugh about his sin and I can't imagine he would have laughed about it later because the grief he felt was too much to just joke about.
Luke 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
I'm not ruling out that you could have come to repentance at a later time, but even if you have I don't see why you laughed about it.
What I wanted to express in my post was I wanted a relationship with the lord. But, when I wasnt reading the Bible I fell in to al manner of lies and false teaching. And when the Lord showed me in his word that I was sinning against him, I was sick And I beg forgiveness. He Gave it to me even though I didnt deserve it.
I agree with Chris in that I hope you did come to repentance, but these testimonies you gave are inconsistent with each other. In one, you take sin lightly by laughing about it, but in this one you seem to take it seriously after we pointed out what was strange about your first testimony. That's why we are confused about what you actually believe.
Im not going to defend myself anymore its pointless
That's up to you. Nobody is forcing you to do anything. I don't know if you read the whole book on repentance, but I hope you read it a second time, carefully consider it and what we have said to you and judge yourself. I don't know what else to say.
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Its taking me a while to realize Im talking to two people. I dont think you realize how confusing it is to keep track of the conversationon a tiny phone. I spent hours typing out long detailed testimonies and replies to both of your questions only to have them disappear when I hit post.
Tim I was not laughing at my sin, I was laughing at the absurdity of my thought process, At the audacity of my pride.
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Im not sure if this is clear or not, I did not repent after the Baptist witness to me. I dont think I repented when I said the sinners prayer. I was trying to give you some background.
I repented when I was reading the Bible, second Timothy chapter 3. I read the list boastful, lover of self, Disobedient,Unloving, unholy i realized i was all of those things. I begin to feel uncomfortable And sick to my stomach. When I got to the silly woman part, I knew he was talking about me.
Please understand, whenever I had read this part before I always had pride I always thought Something like, there goes Paul again picking on the women, I was not prideful now. I was seeing myself for the first time.
Silly woman weighed down by Sin always learning but never coming to the knowledge of truth. I was devastated I cried out to Lord. I repented for days weeks even. Every time I thought of some thing you like being mean to my mom or some sexual sin it would start all over again. The mercy and grace was like nothing Ive ever experienced before
I have been on my own for the past two years Im having trouble finding a church. People dont really teach about repentance. Chris video was like water for my soul. Im sorry I meddled up my Testimony. Im sorry if you still doubt my sincerity. Regardless Im still grateful to you all
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I want to ask your Forgiveness. I reread all the posts I realized now I was being examined. I have never had any other person do this. Instead of humbly submitting, I reacted in pride. Im very sorry. I thought you were being overly critical. but I was the one being unclear. If you want to ask me more questions I will endeavor to give a thoughtful reply. (It might take me a few hours) and if you dont want to ask me any questions Will you allow me to continue watching and learning? I will be quiet and learn in silence.
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Well, of course you can stay. We don't kick people out for disagreements; we kick people out if they claim to be Christians and have contentious and railing attitudes, which is not what you're showing us now. (And anyone can listen and read without joining the forum, so you do not need anyone's permission to continue to watch and learn.)
The main point I was bringing up, which I will mention again, was what the "Baptist man" taught you (i.e. "You need a personal relationship with Jesus"), and that you claimed that message was the Gospel of Jesus. My purpose was to explain to you, from the Scripture, that what you said he taught you was not the Gospel of Jesus, nor is it what we are to preach to others. If you already understand that, then that's what I needed to know, and I can presume that what you originally said was probably just poorly written, and that's not a big deal because I've done that before too. (I just have not done it from a smart phone because I do not own one.)
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Same here. I have no problem with you staying and there have been many times where I have reacted pridefully, so I am no better than you.
I do have a smartphone and am using one now, so I know the hassle with the apostrophes and writing posts. It is limiting and I only ever use a smartphone to make short posts and that is why I was hoping you had access to a computer.
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Thank you both for your forgiveness.
Chris I have been thinking about your question since I read it this morning. what was the gospel that the nice Baptist thought me? My answer is I am not sure exactly what he told me. What I do know is, if he taught me repentance that leads to salvation by godly sorrow, Then I did not receive what he taught me. I received Jesus died for my sins and I needed a relationship with him.
I would also like to add when I Said the sinners prayer a few years later I was not overcome with knowledge of my own sin. I was sorry I had not received him earlier And I was joyful and grateful. But I have often thought after I did truly repent a few years ago that my sinners prayer confession was a false conversion. When I look at the fruit it was all bad. As I said in my first post, I immediately fell into false doctrine and followed false teachers. From The prosperity gospel it was a short leap into the New Age. ( they both use the same scriptures out of context to deceive silly women like me)
I rewrote my true repentance and salvation. I Dont know if you read that yet, this is when I became a true born again Believer. A few days after I broke down when reading Timothy, I began to read the gospels. Everything Became crystal clear for me. I read the story about John the Baptist, he preached repentance to prepare the Jews to receive salvation in Christ. I began to understand repentance is necessary to be prepared to receive the atonement of the cross. I was astounded and overjoyed. I started to tell people about repentance. I told my brother and he rebuked me, he said I was becoming legalistic. This was in March 2018, Decades after I met the baptist.
I want to also say, that I realized during my examination, that I have somehow drifted away from repentance in the last few months. I had a terrible experience at a reformed church. I was holding onto a lot of unforgiveness and anger. my pride told me I was justified. What a lie.
When the Lord confronted me on my pride when dealing with you, he began to showed me my unforgiveness and sin. I have been repenting since early this morning.
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Hi Melanie,
I am glad to see that you have received correction in humility and have cleared up your testimony a bit. I hope it is evident to you that the reason why (I believe) Chris and Timothy responded to you the way they did was because the truth of the Gospel is too important to be compromised (for your sake, and for the sake of simply being faithful to God's commands). I understand feeling hurt by it at first if you have never experienced it before. However, I believe that is mostly because church buildings seem like they will basically fellowship with almost anyone no matter what they believe. So most people aren't very used to it at all. It's a very sad thing, but it is true. I am glad to be somewhere that the Lord Jesus Christ has worked it into the hearts of His people to stand firmly upon His doctrines, and I hope that you see the great value in that as well.
I hope that you can learn more while being here, and I pray that the Lord will bless you and protect you while you are driving. :)
Also, maybe if you are having issues with responding on your phone, I have a couple of ideas you can try.
(1.) You can try typing your posts in a notes or documents app (if you have one of those) and then copying and pasting it into the text box from there. You still have to make sure you don't post it with apostrophes though. But even if you forget to erase them and the post gets cut off, you can go back and erase those apostrophes in your document and not lose the entire post.
(2.) Before hitting the "post" button, copy your entire post from the text box. That way, if you lose it when clicking the button, you can just paste it back and try again. Sometimes if I am taking a long time to write a post, I periodically copy what I have written up to that point so that I won't lose it if something goes wrong.
I understand the frustration of losing a post you spent a lot of time on!
-Ellie
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Hi Melanie,
I have to admit, I agreed with Tim and Chris on your initial post and I found what you were saying to be a bit confusing as well, so I am very happy that you took the time to explain what you meant. It is always encouraging to see someone accept correction in humility rather than railing because I can't count the number of people we have had to ban for reacting in pride and contention and continuing to defend false doctrine. I thank the Lord that His Holy Spirit showed you your pride and error and that you were willing to submit to Him. You have no idea how rare that is in the majority of people who have come and gone over the years!
Ellie's suggestions on how to not lose your posts were very good. I was going to suggest that, if possible, you might want to invest in a tablet of some sort so that at least you would have a larger screen to read and type from. If it has wi-fi capability, you can then use your phone to create a 'hot spot' to connect it to the Internet. Don't know if you can afford that, but it's just an idea if you want to consider it.
Anyway, welcome, and I look forward to getting to know you better!
Jeanne
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Hello Elle and Jeanne Thank you for your messages. They were very kind and I appreciate them:) I do understand why Tim and Chris questioned me. I wrote a lazy account of the most miraculous thing Ive ever experienced. I deserved to be called out. Honestly, that was the first time Ive ever been dealt with biblically. Even the pastor of the church Where I was going to never asked me about my repentance or my salvation.
Im very glad that the Lord corrected me. Although It can Sting a little, I would rather be corrected by the Lord, and my fellow believers, then to be showered in false flattery.
Thank you tech advice Im looking into buying a laptop.
Thank you again. Im looking forward to getting to know everyone.
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Hi Melanie
I took interest in watching from the sidelines and was also pleasantly surprised when your replies were quite different from those of many others when they are drawn in to discussion about their conversion experience and they tend to disappear within a short time or get so hostile that they are banned from the forum.
A welcome to the forum from me too and I hope this is a place where you fit right in and continue to grow with all the rest of us and we have excellent fellowship together.
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Hello Melanie
When I read your intro I noticed at the very end you seemed to have repentance but honestly at first I didn't catch what Timothy and Chris caught in your intro. I am a new christian and learning to exercise discernment between those who are true and those who are blind. As I was reading Timothy and Chris' comments, I then realized just how much I have to learn. It made me realize that there was some concerns as well but knew it was best for me to stay silent in this moment. So I watched from the sidelines along with Kevin (anvilhauler) and have to say, I caught myself holding my breath and standing still and praying for God to help you see. Then waited to see what would happen next. Then when I seen your comment back with realizing why Tim and Chris said what they said, I had relief and I am so glad you are here. Hope you learn more and more in Gods word and in fellowship with True Believers in Christ and continue to have a heart after God.
I hope you can find a good deal on a lap top. I used to use my smart phone and it was difficult but then found out that I could hot spot from my phone for my lap top and now I am so relieved that I can have a bigger screen and I am able to type better.
May we learn the Truth together with humbleness and repentance and that we would have the courage to speak the truth with humbleness and boldness to those who speak falsely.
Scriptures that have come across my mind while writing to you:
Matthew 10:16
King James Version
16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
2 Timothy 2:15
King James Version
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Stay safe out there on the roads and watch out for those crazy drivers
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I want to ask your Forgiveness. I reread all the posts I realized now I was being examined. I have never had any other person do this. Instead of humbly submitting, I reacted in pride. Im very sorry. I thought you were being overly critical. but I was the one being unclear.
Hi Melanie, it was so good to read these words, as a few have already stated, that in most cases we do not see those being heavily questioned accept the correction and humbly ask for forgiveness.
I can understand how difficult it would be to type everything out on a phone multiple times, just to have it disappear or cut off. Ellie gave some great tips that I also was going to suggest.
I'm not a truck driver, but do travel by vehicle quite a bit for work. I was wondering if you listen to any teachings while out on the road? If so, have there been any teachings so far that are your favorites? I saw you mentioned the repentance teaching.
The driving and listening to past teachings have been a tremendous blessing for me to be able to learn and work at the same time.
I look forward to getting to know you better on here :)
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Hi Melanie, I am glad to see that you stuck with it! The apostrophes thing is something to get used to. I still miss them and usually have to edit my posts multiple times to get all of it through. You took the questioning with humility which is a rare thing.
I am very familiar with trucking as my dad just retired from being OTR (over the road/long haul) at the beginning of this year. In fact, he trained with a company in Salt Lake when he got back into the industry from another one 20 years ago.
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Hi Kevin Thank you for your message and your welcome to the forum. I look forward to The fellowship as well.
Heather I cant say thank you enough for praying and hoping for me. That brought tears to my eyes when I read it. Bless you
Shannon hello, thank you for your reply. Yes I do watch and listen to a lot of Teaching and sermons. I like Paul washer I also like answers in genesis, Its world history but with a biblical point of view. Redeemer Bible church I like. If you have any suggestions please let me know.
Hi Megan truck driving is not for everyone! I was laid off a few years ago, I had my CDL because I was in safety, so I put it to use. It has not always been easy. But as Sharon pointed out I have a lot of time to study and listen to the word, that has been a blessing. Thank you for your message.
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Shannon hello, thank you for your reply. Yes I do watch and listen to a lot of Teaching and sermons. I like Paul washer I also like answers in genesis, Its world history but with a biblical point of view. Redeemer Bible church I like. If you have any suggestions please let me know.
Hi again Melanie
We have had discussion here in the past about Ken Ham and Answers in Genesis. Although they look like they might be a good website on the outside they are not quite so squeaky clean and noble on the inside.
You might even like reading the thread we had on the subject
http://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=500.msg4300#msg4300
Ken Ham's Answers in Genesis is 501c3 incorporated which means they are effectively a US Government organization and have sold themselves out for money as documented in this article Chris has written and contains the evidence given by Ken Ham himself.
http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/501c3.php
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Hi Melanie,
Are you aware that all of Christopher's teachings are available in audio form on the website? These include the first half Bible study that we do each week, which are not included in the YouTube videos. They are also available on SoundCloud.
https://soundcloud.com/clechurchonline (https://soundcloud.com/clechurchonline)
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I actually havent been watching or sleeping or eating much since this all began. I have been praying and Repenting and seeing things with new eyes. You have no idea how heavy a burden is until its lifted off. Thank you Lord.
When I began to repent for my pride when dealing with Tim and Chris I could see how I was desperately grasping at any excuse why my testimony wasnt bursting from my heart or flowing from my lips as it used to. Why did it feel so dampened? I was crying out to the lord help me!
The Lord in his perfect mercy showed me how I was holding Onto unforgiveness and resentment towards that church & pastor that dealt badly with me. I broke and Repented
Then he started to show me the seeds of that incident were planted way before I was spiritually Knee capped by it.
After I had repented in 2018 I never went back to my old life. I was repulsed by it, disgusted. I spent my time reading and listening to the word. And watching a lot of sermons and teaching on YouTube. (I am thoroughly reevaluating every teacher I expose myself to)
In a way I was content, my heart was filled with love and desire to follow the Lord. I was getting fed by anybody who simply preached out of the Bible. (I did not notice the subtle differences that I am becoming very aware of now. ) But I started longing for fellowship with other believers.
I Began to look for a church. I wanted one that only taught Bible verse by verse and sing old-fashioned hymns filled with biblical truth. That is exactly what I got. (Yes, I am Beginning To seeing my folly )
At first everything seemed fine. Although there were clues that it was not. For instance When I was excitedly trying to talk to the pastor about my repentance and salvation And all of the things I had discovered, I had to chase after him because he kept walking away. A few people did talk to me but mostly I just sat and listened.
I started having trouble with a man. We had talked about the Lord and he said he was a Christian and even repented. However, something was terribly wrong. One minute he would be Praising the Lord and the next terrified and terrorized that he was not saved. I was very concerned, I privately went to the pastor. His advice was keep praying for him and tell him about the Lord and keep pointing to the Bible. I tried to do that.
He would call me at all hours and get mad if I didnt reply immediately. He started telling me in explicit detail about his sexual sin. I told him he needed to take that to the pastor or another male Christian. He would apologize profusely but then turn around and do it again. I had told him within 20 minutes of meeting him I was not interested in any romantic relationships I only wanted to seek the Lord, he said he wasnt interested either. But when he started pressing me and attempting to lead me into sexual conversations. That
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Continued it was cut off but I copied it this time!
I started having trouble with a man. We had talked about the Lord and he said he was a Christian and even repented. However, something was terribly wrong. One minute he would be Praising the Lord and the next terrified and terrorized that he was not saved. I was very concerned, I privately went to the pastor. His advice was keep praying for him and tell him about the Lord and keep pointing to the Bible. I tried to do that.
He would call me at all hours and get mad if I didnt reply immediately. He started telling me in explicit detail about his sexual sin. I told him he needed to take that to the pastor or another male Christian. He would apologize profusely but then turn around and do it again. I had told him within 20 minutes of meeting him I was not interested in any romantic relationships I only wanted to seek the Lord, he said he wasnt interested either. But when he started pressing me and attempting to lead me into sexual conversations. Thats when I Finally put my foot down. I went back to the pastor and told him everything, he said he would talk to him. The pastor called back and told me he had apologized and seem to think it was finished. But the man had called me soon after angry that I had told the Pastor what he done. Im not sure what happen next but I noticed people quit talking to me. I finally just left upset and confused. what did I do wrong. was I supposed to be more patient? Was I required to let somebody spiritually abuse me?
After my very short conversations and dealing with Chris and Tim I am starting to see some thing that I hadnt seen before. If that had been a biblical fellowship One that truly followed the Bible, not just the appearance of it. that man wouldnt even have gotten through the gate.
That man was exhibiting worldly sorrow leading to death, not godly sorrow that leads to repentance and eternal life.
Im also quite concerned about the pastor. He didnt handle anything rightly. He didnt Shepherd and protect me. He shouldve taken over and dealt with it himself.
I also see I didnt do what the Bible said I didnt examine people to see if they were truly in the faith (even though I thought I did)
I am humbly beginning to see discernment is not being able to spot rank heresy.
It is the subtle lies. The Almost but not quite right. I am in need of this discernment.
I am praying, crying out Father help me!
I am so thankful to the Lord for this ministry and your fellowship. Thank you so much for not letting up on me. For making me examine myself, for giving me the Biblical tools to do it.
All honor and glory to The Leading for leading me to you all.
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The good thing here at CLE is that no-one is going to be lying to you or "taking you for a ride". It is regularly brought to everyone's attention that each of us must be reading and studying the word of God for ourselves and so we base all of our faith and practices on the word of God and not something that someone told us.
Hence all matters are fully open for discussion and at times you will see Chris publish retractions of something he has taught in error and all of us are pleased with full unity that we have come to know and understand something more fully than we did before.
We're all in the same boat and all of us are just as you were with knowing something was wrong and only over time having the veils of deception removed from our eyes and being able to see things more correctly as they truly are. Back in Jesus' time they were called pharisees but today they are called pastors, but they are the same fake positions with alterior motives of serving themselves and extracting money from people so they don't have to work for a living or so much as lift a finger in helping others when difficulties come along.
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I told you I was reevaluating teachers . I decided to start with John MacArthur. The church I was going to really love him .everything they used was MacArthur. Study notes and commentaries.
So I went to his book list to see if he had One titled some thing like
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I went to his book list to see if he had a book entitled repentance The way to salvation or something like that. Nope He didnt even have one with repentance in the title
So I went to YouTube and looked up his sermons about salvation. I found one in titled the blueprint to being born again. I thought if he Preaches repentance, it will be in here.
Nope! He preached that being boring again was from above. Meaning that you can only be born again by God. I completely agree. But then he circled it around to election. Nothing about repentance. He only mentioned repentance twice like an afterthought, something you did after you were saved.
He didnt mention anything about your heart being prepared to receive Christ. Nothing about being broken, Shattered before the lord.
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The Lord in his perfect mercy showed me how I was holding Onto unforgiveness and resentment towards that church & pastor that dealt badly with me. I broke and Repented
Then he started to show me the seeds of that incident were planted way before I was spiritually Knee capped by it.
Hi Melanie, I wanted to respond to this part of your post. I'll share a bible verse and explain why I am pointing it out.
Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him. (Luke 17:3-4)
Did your pastor repent? If he did, then you should forgive him. If he did not, you are not required to forgive him. That doesn't mean that you harbor anger and resentment in your heart against him, but God doesn't require us to forgive unrepentant sin committed against us.
Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: (Ephesians 4:26)
This is a concept that is relatively new to me, as well. But it makes a whole lot of sense when you read that verse closely and consider the fact that God Himself is not going to forgive the impenitent man, but He does give grace to those who are humbled to repentance and believe on Christ.
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. (Luke 13:3)
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Hi Elissa, thank you for your post! I agree with you my forgiveness will not absolve him of his sin. My forgiveness does not make him right with the Lord. I suspect he has much bigger problems, Lord help him. But, I dont believe that means Im not required to forgive.
The Bible says The Bible says
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Continued I need to learn how to do scripture without quotes :)
Whenever you stand praying, If you have anything against anyone, forgive them, That your father in heaven may forgive You and your trespasses mark 11:25
The Lords prayer says to ask, forgive our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.
How can I hold resentment towards anybody, when I have been forgiven of so very much?
Im not trying to argue with you, I see your point. We dont need to be doormats If I was in that situation again I would put a stop to it well before it got to that point. You all have shown me that!
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I want to make this point clear.
The lesson the Lord showed me with my repentance is, if I had been looking for a church that not only taught the Bible verse by verse and sang hymns ( all good things) but, One that had a right understanding of salvation. Godly sorrow that brings brokenness That leads to forgiveness and salvation in Christ. I would never have been in that situation to begin with.
Im starting to see The spiritual knee capping was allowed by the Lord. How else was he supposed to stop me from charging a ahead in the WRONG direction? I was only in that church for six months, Without the correction I couldve been in there for years.
Also I am In the middle of Chris teaching Of 501c3. Its clear, I was looking in all the wrong places for a biblical fellowship. What can I say? Thankfully being smart is not a requirement of belonging to the Lord! In fact I am rejoicing in it!
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Hi Melanie,
I have been thinking about your response and about what I should say back to you, so I apologize for taking a couple of days. I wanted to send you these verses and encourage you to possibly look at the fullness of the doctrine of forgiveness, with this in mind:
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: (Isaiah 28:9-10)
The fullness of the doctrines of God are found scattered through the scriptures and in order to have a complete understanding of them, we take the verses in context and study where they are found throughout the entirety of the bible. I have been learning this recently and it has been very helpful in understanding things. I don't think I have a full understanding of this yet by any means, but I just wanted to share that in hopes that it would be beneficial to you.
I will not deny what Mark 11:25 says:
And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
So, we know that God will forgive us only if we repent. But if we were to only take this verse by itself without any of the other things we know about God's forgiveness, we might assume that in order to be forgiven by God we have to do a work of going around and forgiving everyone that has wronged us. But of course, that isn't how we are forgiven by God--rather, we repent to God and believe on Christ, and He gives us a heart that is humbled and willing to forgive those who come to us in the same manner. So knowing that, we can see that it is important to take a look at other verses in order to know the fullness about the topic of forgiveness.
Those other verses I shared previously are just more "pieces to the puzzle" when understanding the fullness of the doctrine (along with Mark 11:25) if that makes sense. God never forgives anyone who does not repent, and we aren't going to be required to do more than God Himself is willing to do (I think Chris said that somewhere in a teaching... not sure exactly which one). But if someone sins against us and they do repent, God absolutely expects us to forgive them as He was merciful to us when we came to Him in grief and sorrow over our sins toward Him--so of course, the Holy Spirit will prompt us to be merciful to those who come to us in grief and godly sorrow. God does not despise a broken and contrite spirit (see verse below), so we are never to despise them either. We are supposed to resemble Christ in His great mercy, in that way.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise. (Psalm 51:17)
I hope this explains it a little better. I pray that God would give us both a better understanding of the matter. I admire your compassion and desire to let go of any hard feelings towards the pastor you mentioned. I will not tell you that you are not allowed to forgive someone even if they do not repent, because I believe that is within your liberty to do so, I was just pointing out that it is not a requirement to do so without repentance and attempting to show you that through the scriptures.
If anyone sees that I am in error I would like to know or if someone has anything else to add about the subject then that is welcomed. I hope I explained it well enough.
What can I say? Thankfully being smart is not a requirement of belonging to the Lord! In fact I am rejoicing in it!
Hahaha. This made me laugh because I have felt a similar way. I have been prideful in believing that I am smart... but I really know nothing and anything I've learned has only been because God has allowed it. Praise God for that. :)
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Melanie,
I am in agreeance with Ellie. But just one addition to the comment.
The words of Jesus himself when he was hanging on the cross and dieing for all mankind and even those who treated him mockingly and horrible and with disgust,(even for the rapists, murderers, adulterers and abusers etc...) He was dieing for them and their sins that they might be saved and the words he asked of His Father in heaven was ,"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." He asked God His Father to extend forgiveness to them just like he does even now while he is at the right hand of God the Father making intercession for us. God is long suffering with his people. You could ask God to be with the "pastor" and that the Holy Spirit would bring conviction to him for his error in the word and ask that God would save his soul because Jesus died for all.
But if that man came up to you personally and said ,"you need to forgive me" when he didn't truly have sorrow for his wrong doing. You would probably need to ask , "have you repented of your sins?" If he shows that he has NOT, then you would not need to say, " I forgive you" because if you said you forgave him.. It would make him think that he is extended grace with a proud and unrepentant heart. It will make him think he is justified to continue in his sin and continue to do wrong. James 4:6 says that God resisteth the proud but gives grace to the humble." Now if this man or any trespasser comes to you and is humbled in repentance for the wrong against you and asks for your forgiveness then you graciously extend him forgiveness.
(I know this is a quite a bit of scripture below and the scripture I am referring to is at the end but think it wise to read all that is around the scripture that is referenced.)
Matthew 18:15-22
King James Version
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
If there is repentance. Extend forgiveness. If there isn't ask God to convict them to repentance for their wrong. We do not want anyone to perish. Praying for the unrepentant will help us to see them through God's eyes and it helps us to not become bitter. When you have more trespasses in the future (because you will) ask God to help Prepare you now for those moments. Ask him to help you to have compassion toward those who hurt you. And to not have hate in your heart or resentment toward them. Because this is murder in your heart toward them.
Matthew 5:43-44
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you
I hope this helps. And if anything was said that doesn't line up with scripture. Please correct my error
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I think a good example of all of this is David. He had every right to be angry with Saul for persecuting him and to hold unforgiveness in his heart towards him, yet he just turned it all over to the Lord and asked God to deal with Saul. David was then able to still show charity towards Saul in not retaliating for what was being done to him, which he was fully capable of doing. Twice, David had the opportunity to kill Saul but refused to do it because Saul was still God's anointed.
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Hi Ellie and Heather, i read and reread your messages. Im not sure what to say here, I think maybe you are overthinking this? If the Lord shows me I have unforgiveness rooting in my heart and he gives me the grace to forgive, whats the problem?
For if you forgive other people who sin against you, Your heavenly father will also forgive you matt 6:14
Bear with each other and forgive one another If anyone has a grievance against Someone. Forgive as the Lord has forgiven you Colossians 313
There is so many more passages that tell us to forgive And have no requirement of the other person asking for forgiveness. I think its damaging us to hold onto resentment & unforgiveness. I know it was for me.
Im very impressed with your Bible knowledge. Thank you for your fellowship, it warms my heart.