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Wild Emails @ CLE / Re: Discerning Scoffers Before They Make An Argument

« on: July 24, 2019, 03:30:54 PM »

I'll get to filling out a profile, just haven't had time. I know I read that part.

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Wild Emails @ CLE / Re: Discerning Scoffers Before They Make An Argument

« on: July 24, 2019, 03:23:52 PM »

Daniel,
with prideful and sarcastic comments like this:

Again, go back to the conversation Christ had with Nicodemus... oh wait, you never did address or answer that discussion?...

Hi Kenneth... first of all, it is irritating that I addressed a lot of the above to Chris, yet it never got a response, and I was simply stating a fact, that it was INDEED not addressed or answered. What's wrong with calling him out on it?

most people here aren't going to interact with you, because comments like that show that your questions don't come from an honest heart of genuine inquiry.

Actually they did (come from an honest heart of genuine inquiry), but all I got in return was a few labels of "strange" "confusing" etc... But that's okay, because truth isn't much liked these days. And personally, I really don't care for people to come back and interact, IF they don't want to seek the truth, but rather their own vain imaginations. What does the Bible say? "Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?" Seems like Chris, and perhaps a few others in here, are his followers (of half truths = misguided misinformation)... 26 "But ye/they believe not, because ye/they are not of [His] sheep, as I said unto you."

Personally, I'm not impressed with your attempted snow job of Calvinistic presuppositions.  It shows me that you are trying to avoid any real discussion, but only trying to cast doubt and disbelief.

I personally don't care, if you are not impressed, because clearly you do not understand the depth of the questions asked... because you haven't even attempted to address the points above, either. "...my Calvinistic presuppositions"? Great. Thank you so much for clearly skinning yourself to show the wolf beneath. Saves me a lot of trouble from having to discuss with you any further. Calvin didn't introduce something new. Election, predestination, choosing, foreordination, etc., are spoken about in the Bible more than anything else. And I'm avoiding discussion? Do you not see the lengthy response I poste up above? Get serious.

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Wild Emails @ CLE / Re: Discerning Scoffers Before They Make An Argument

« on: July 24, 2019, 02:50:20 PM »

A few corrections to my own post so I don’t come across as illiterate:

“Christ: Daniel, let me clarify a few things because I don't want to waste your time. Daniel: * I think that's your polite way of saying, "Daniel, don't waste my time." Right? ”
I meant to say “Chris” not “Christ”
And please don’t accuse me of winking maliciously, because of a simple wink, to confer a bit of humor / poking. Get over it.
“You decided to take the easy way out when you said, "Alright, Daniel, I'm stopping your letter right here..." because a) you couldn't more fully fully…”
Did not mean to insert two “fully”s up above.
“HOW IS A REPROBATE, AN EVIL, WICKED PERSON, UNREGENERATED, UNSAVED, NOT BORN-GAIN MAN,…”
Obviously, I meant: “BORN-AGAIN” not “-GAIN…”
“but obviously Chris can't cant from 69 to 70!”
I meant to say, “…obviously Chris can’t COUNT from 69 to 70!”

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Wild Emails @ CLE / Re: Discerning Scoffers Before They Make An Argument

« on: July 24, 2019, 12:45:26 PM »

Are "scoffers" allowed to reply to the accusations?

Thought I would be bold and unafraid to address the forum post...

So I'm a scoffer, Chris, because you didn't understand my letter(s)/email(s) to you, and simply perhaps, because they were "confusing"? Perhaps you didn't understand the depth of questions that were being asked? I'm a scoffer because I called you out on a few things, but you choose to disregard responding to them? One of my first questions was "how one is saved eternally?" but you didn't have the courage/knowledge to fully answer? Yes, yes, I know you've stated in your website articles MANY times, that one has to repent (i.e., have grief and godly sorrow)...

...but Chris, what you failed to answer is, HOW IS ONE ABLE TO REPENT IN THE FIRST PLACE?

The first question I asked you, which appears you never answered, is, "How can a man in a state of being dead, realize he has to ask for repentance?"

If you do not understand this question, or cannot answer it, it means that you do not understand man's TOTAL DEPRAVITY...something I did not come across ONCE on your website. So yes, I can definitely see how I come off as "strange" or "confusing."

Total depravity, to explain in brief, is the fact that EVERY human being is born spiritually dead, at enmity with God (too many verses to include right now, and no, that's not a cop out)... But God told Adam that in the day he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, he would die. How would Adam (and Eve) die?

You never addressed this.

Adam and Eve didn't die, on the spot, in that moment, did they? They didn't die intellectually, and become brain-dead / mentally retarded, in that day, did they? They did physically at some point in the long distant future die... but God said, KJV "17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." This means that they died in their spiritual connection & affection for the LORD. Hence, the reason every human being, though born alive and breathing, is born spiritually-dead... in need of regeneration, salvation, to be born-again (because they are dead)...

But you never addressed this. You simply stated that you "cried for three hours, and were born again that day."

And thus, I asked you, how is one saved eternally? One has to be born again, based on the conversation between Jesus Christ and Nicodemus, but you never ONCE addressed that point. You kept pointing back to repentance, which again, is great, and I never disagreed with you on, but you didn't explain how one gets to the point of being able to do that, because we both agree that natural man cannot repent, he has no reason to, he doesn't see it, he is in the dark, he doesn't care for it, he is dead spiritually, preaching of the Cross / Gospel is foolishness unto him...

...so yes, I guess I'm a scoffer, because my deep questions to you, you really have no idea how to answer (you pointed me back to "How To Be Saved," and "How To Gain Eternal Salvation" - which I called you out on) and you didn't address these points, and others...

You also did not address my question, and I'll quote it again, "In what context is he (the jailer) referring to, in regards to asking for salvation?"

You never addressed this point, either.

You somehow believe the jailer is asking for eternal security and salvation, BUT NOT ONCE IS THERE A MENTION OF THIS, IN THE PASSAGE! How can you with 100% certainty believe it's referring to eternal salvation?

Again, I asked you to give me some feedback on Paul's MUCH BETTER explanation of the five phases of salvation (regardless whether I wrote it or I copied it from another website, and BY THE WAY, THE AUTHOR / PASTOR OF THE ARTICLE HAS STATED THAT ALLLLL MATERIAL ON THE WEBSITE CAN BE COPIED, DISTRIBUTED, SHARED, ETC. WITHOUT GIVING CREDIT TO THE PERSON WHO WROTE IT. THAT SPEAKS VERY HIGHLY IN MY OPINION), and I asked you, once again, does "save" and "salvation" mean "eternally saved" in every instance the word(s) up above are used?

You never answered this, either.

You didn't explain who the "all" is referring to in the verse you used / posted on your website that states that God wants "all" to come to repentance. Does "all" mean every single man, woman, and child, in every context? Again, you choose to ignore answering this, BECAUSE YOU SIMPLY DO NOT KNOW.

I then informed you that I read your articles, and you still erred on many things...

...You made it seem that one has to "cry for several hours in repentance" and THAT IS THE DAY THEY ARE BORN AGAIN.

WHERE IN THE BIBLE IS THAT METHOD EVEN MENTIONED, TO BE BORN AGAIN? Which of the apostles tried this method to be "saved eternally"?

Again, go back to the conversation Christ had with Nicodemus... oh wait, you never did address or answer that discussion?...

See, you want your audience to believe "I'm confusing" because you didn't understand my letters / email / questions, but yet... you didn't address a lot of the points, and cut out some of the discussion because you simply couldn't answer, so "I'm a scoffer," and "confusing." Right.

The next letter was very confusing in the way he set it up with quoting me quoting him and responding to those, so I'll publish my next letter, which has his responses in it.
 
What is so confusing about me answering you in a quote - by - quote fashion? Usually people read an email, then they respond in a line-by-line fashion, hopefully to address the points in succession. Does my writing here, seem to confuse anyone, or am I that illiterate? Aren't you doing the exact same thing that I did, responding in line-by-line fashion? Can we say, "Hypocrite"?

Christ: Daniel, let me clarify a few things because I don't want to waste your time. Daniel: * I think that's your polite way of saying, "Daniel, don't waste my time." Right?  

You obviously do not have any sense of humor, as was indicated by the wink face, in my letter to you. I was poking fun at you but you "assumed" that you thought I was lying to you. So you're guilty of the same thing you accuse me of? Hypocrite.

You paint me as "confusing," a "scoffer," and an-almost-"reprobate" because I used one quote by Teddy Roosevelt, which IS VERY TRUE: "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college degree." and oh, no! Suddenly my discussion is not valid to read / listen to anymore... You are not someone I am trying to impress, guy. Who cares who said them, if the content of the statement is true?! A thorough knowledge of the Bible (which you seem NOT to have) is worth not one, but many college degrees! TRUE, or not!?

The first thing that I would like to address (and I will do this in piece-by-piece fashion) is your "About Me" section
1. Teach the Gospel.
You used this verse: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
-Matthew 28:19-20
It's a great verse, nothing wrong with it... And like I've already mentioned before, your website is great, to teach more truth about God's law to mankind. But which mankind?... because there is a spiritual, and there is a natural mankind? One can understand spiritual things, and the other can't. Natural, carnal mankind doesn't even care about the Bible, so what good would the website be to them?
I'll answer you the same way Jesus answered the lawyer who tried to justify himself by questioning who specifically was his "neighbor." (i.e. The lawyer was attempting to redefine 'neighbor' to mean something else so he could skirt the issue at hand and give himself an excuse for his selfishness.) 

Chris! You skirted the question! You mentioned that your reason in answering the way you did was to give an excuse for selfishiness... I WANTED YOU TO ANSWER, "WHO DID CHRIST GIVE THIS COMMANDMENT TO?!" You didn't answer, what mankind are we talking about here? IT'S BECAUSE YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND REGENERATION, BORN-AGAIN, CONVERSION, etc.!

Chris: The fact that you asked the question shows that you don't understand what Jesus sent us to do. 

The fact that YOU DIDN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION I ASKED, SHOWS YOUR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE OF GOD'S WORD! YOU DIDN'T EVEN REFER TO THE CONVERSATION BETWEEN NICODEMUS AND CHRIST! HELLOOOO?? CHRIST SAID YOU HAVE TO BE BORN AGAIN. HOW? CHRIS'S RESPONSE IS THAT YOU HAVE TO REPENT. CHRIST'S ANSWER IS THAT A MAN HAS TO BE BORN AGAIN, REGENERATED BY GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT, AND BY GOD'S WILL, HIS CHOICE, NOT MANS (JOHN 1:12-13).

YOU NEVER ADDRESSED THIS CHRIS! But I'm the one who is confusing and a scoffer? Get real.

You stated that you cannot give a full lesson on every chapter, on every verse you quote... here's the thing, guy... YOU DON'T HAVE A COMMENTARY ON PETER, from where you ripped the verse out of context. This verse: "...and not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." This is a cop out, because I asked you to define who "ALL" in this context was referring to, and I told you that Peter was talking to a very specific group of people, "...to us-ward...", not the entire human world! But you never addressed that point, again, because you do not understand that "ALL" does not mean every single man, woman, and child" in the world. I gave you SEVERAL Bible verses that used the word "ALL" yet you didn't even have the courage to address them...

Chris: I don't care what context you used the word 'save'. 

If you do not care of the context of the word "saved," you are truly ignorant. "If they be ignorant, let them be ignorant." Rings true for you. How did Paul use the word "save" 5 different times to refer to his own salvation? Did PAUL EVER SAY HE CRIED, AND WAS SAVED ON A SPECIFIC DAY? WHY DO YOU NOT FOLLOW THE BIBLE, RATHER THAN YOUR OWN HEART, MIND, OWN IMAGINATIONS?

Chris: 'Save' means different things in different contexts. Context is the key, and with all that reading you've done, you should know that by now. 

YES! But you never addressed which "save" is being referred to! This is of such critical importance!

You decided to take the easy way out when you said, "Alright, Daniel, I'm stopping your letter right here..." because a) you couldn't more fully fully my questions about the man-made term, "The Great Commission." Regardless if you stated you used it or not, you are stating that Christians' duty is go out and preach to the whole world... when clearly the commandment was given to the 11 (+ Paul). What's so confusing / scornful about telling you this? I did state that I believe in evangelism WHICH IS DIFFERENT THAN THE COMMANDMENT / ORDER CHRIST GAVE TO HIS 11 APOSTLES (AGAIN, SOMETHING YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND) and b) you, again, took the easy way out because I used some material from another website, that didn't seem to have an author's name on it. Does it make a big difference? Is there not a named person / pastor, in the "About Us" section? Could it not be that it was this guy who wrote the articles? What a joke.

Chris: If you repent (i.e. have grief and sorrow) of all this nonsense (i.e. deceit and loaded questions and false accusations) 

What exactly is nonsense? That I'm asking you hard, deep questions, and you can't answer them, and therefore this is nonsense, and I need to repent? Of what? Did I call you an A**HOLE? Did I curse you to hell? Uh, no? I'm calling you to discussion about the half-truths you have posted on your website!

You only included parts of our email transaction in your forum post here, to paint yourself in the best light, and the other person as "confusing," "scornful," etc... Hmmm.

And yes, again, you state that people have to repent... BUT YOU DO NOT ADDRESS how one is able to do that first!

Chris: It's very suspicious that a man who has studied that much for that long would not understand the basics of the Gospel of Christ: 

Clearly, you do not, because you can't explain regeneration, how one is born again (not how to "gain eternal salvation"), conversion - these are all Bible words, guy, but you haven't ever addressed them in your writings / website.

By the way, That link is to that sight's teaching on repentance, in which they teach that repentance means grief and godly sorrow of wrongdoing, and Daniel is blind to this,

...the word is "site" not "sight"...

... and... you must be illiterate, and blind, or something else, because didn't I state several times in agreement with you, that I AGREE that repentance means grief and godly sorrow of wrongdoing?? I am stating it again, I agree that repentance means "grief and godly sorrow of wrongdoing," so how am I blind? LOL

but he refuses to see or acknowledge that I could have seen through him that quickly because he is ignorant of God's doctrine.

Oh, Chris... ignorant of God's doctrine how? You clearly do not understand God's doctrine in His divine work in regeneration (another key word which you are not able to define), conversion, etc., and again, I ask you, but you still fail to answer, how is a dead man, spiritually dead, able to repent and have grief and godly sorry? HOW IS A REPROBATE, AN EVIL, WICKED PERSON, UNREGENERATED, UNSAVED, NOT BORN-GAIN MAN, capable of doing anything godly??! Don't we agree that there is not one that seeks God? What must first happen for that man to be BORN AGAIN, in order to do something towards God, to please God, to seek God? It is YOU that unfortunately does not understand doctrine.

To Jeanne the moderator: you stated: "He also said that some of what you teach is in error, but he never described what that"

...I asked how a man is able to repent, and how a man is born again, but he believe it is by "crying for several hours that he was born again on that day."

Then I told him that Paul wasn't saved on a particular day because he bawled his eyes out. Paul described his salvation in several different phases. If you want to find out more about the truth of God's word and doctrine, go to that website, LetGodBeTrue, (if Chris doesn't block this forum post), and look up the article "Five Phases." It will give you a lot more truth about salvation, the terms "save" "salvation" etc... than on this website.

I also asked several other things, like "What does "ALL" refer to in the verse Chris used," but Chris decided to conveniently not respond to it.

I also asked a whole lot more questions, but they were not included, because Chris didn't read the rest of my email, and he only posted what would make HIM look good, righteous, correct, etc.

Chris also believes drinking wine is a sin, when in fact, Christ Himself CREATED wine, and consumed it himself.

Chris also erroneously explains the rapture, tribulation, etc., not realizing that the Great Tribulation Christ spoke about had already come upon the nation of Israel for crucifying their Messiah. Chris erroneously states that the final week of the 70 weeks prophecy in Daniel is yet to be fulfilled, at some time in the future, with a 2000+ year gap in between, but obviously Chris can't cant from 69 to 70! There is plenty of material on other websites that shows the 70th week was fulfilled in Christ's time!

Reed Scott - yes, a lot of good stuff... unfortunately, you err. You stated: "This does not mean God creates men who have no chance to repent and be saved.  Such would be brutes.  Not even really human."

Have you not read your Bible? What does God say?

Proverbs 16:4 - The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Romans 9: 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,...

What does the above mean? It means God created some vessels (human beings) to fulfill His secret will, by their evil deeds, and they are "fitted for destruction" meaning their ultimate end is in the lake of fire. How can you say that "This does not mean God creates men who have no chance to repent and be saved"?

Furthermore, what does God say in the day of judgement?

Matthew 7: 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

What? God never knew someone, that He created? Impossible. Is it not omnipotent and omniscient? God knows EVERY SINGLE DETAIL ABOUT EVERY SINGLE CELL AND EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO EVER LIVED... For God to say that He never knew someone, is to say that He never loved them, He never bestowed his specific grace unto them to regenerate them, to cause them to be born again... What is so difficult about this?

Ultimately, Chris, what am I unrepentant of? Because I called you out on some of your error on doctrine? Because I didn't agree with you on many things?

Anyone is free to email me, or send me a message, or reply to this response, there is nothing to hide!

Daniel