Author Topic: New Member  (Read 14041 times)

creationliberty

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Re: New Member
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2021, 06:48:24 PM »
1Then Job answered and said,
2How long will ye vex my soul,
And break me in pieces with words?
Job 19

Get delivered, stop vexing others Christopher

Hmm. I thought you said:
That is your perception. You're entitled to it, it's your right. And I will never say your perception is wrong. Because it's yours. I will never be able to see through your perception perfectly.
Well, it looks like that was a lie.

If you cannot depart in peace, I will show you the door. I still hope you have a great day and that your family is blessed with all their needs throughout the coming months of change in our country.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

Jeanne

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Re: New Member
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2021, 11:08:11 PM »
McKenna, if you're still reading this, did you notice that outside of the Admin and Moderators, NO ONE replied to you except for Rowan? And he joined the forum around the same time you did! That's because no one here could relate to you. And the reason we couldn't relate to you is that you are not of the same mind we are. Chris didn't say anything to you that I wasn't already thinking, and I'm sure others on here feel the same way. How did he know that you would not hear/understand what he (and others) were trying to tell you? Because we've seen the same attitude in many other people over the years.

What was said you to was not said in anger or malice, but in trying to get you to understand the true Gospel of Jesus Christ so that you would NOT end up in hell! However, you didn't want to hear that, so you struck out in pride and anger, further proving that what Chris said to you was correct.

creationliberty

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Re: New Member
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2021, 12:25:36 AM »
Before I go to bed, I wanted to share this. McKenna is now emailing me. Big surprise, right? This almost always happens with people we have to block on this forum. It turns out, that I had one previous email from her, which went as follows:


Do you know of or have an opinion on Deliverance Ministry
No.


That's it. When people write me vague questions with no other details, I give vague answers with no other details.

So, we can confirm that she was a part of the "Deliverance Ministries." Now, I do not cover them on my website yet. I don't have any information to look up about them in my ministry, and that's because I did not grow up around those types of people. However, just for information's sake, for all of you, deliverance so-called "ministries" are rooted in demonology, which is NOT biblical in any sense. Essentially, it's pagan mythology, and they think they are casting out demons, when they're not.

In addition, they tend to have the philosophy that their conversion is based on a demon being cast out of them, which is also rooted in the concepted that the devil in them was at fault for all the wrong they did, and once that devil is out of them, they are now God's children. They never come to repentance of their sin, and that's why McKenna believed that her "turning from sin" and "changing of mind" was the core of her salvation because, it was not really her fault, it was the devil in her.

If you go back and re-read everything she wrote, all the puzzle pieces should start fitting together.

I cannot recommend this pastor because I do not know what basic things he teaches, however, this is a roughly 10-min video of him talking about this subject, and as I listened to it, as far as I know (hopefully, I didn't miss anything), I agreed with everything he said, and I have taught some of the very things he was talking about on the issue of what the Bible does and does not say about casting out devils:


I hope that helps some of you make sense of this, and also helps some of you understand why we ask for someone's testimony of Christ when they claim to be a Christian and enter this forum. We want to preach the gospel of salvation to those (like McKenna) who have not heard it, and also keep out those who would end up causing a lot of trouble on this forum if they stayed.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

Ellie

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Re: New Member
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2021, 09:37:49 AM »
I knew there was something very strange about her, and honestly I couldn't think of what to say to her for most of the conversation. This one was more difficult for me to figure out how to approach. I have heard some of her strange charismatic phrases in the circles I used to be part of (before I was saved), like "speaking spirits" over people, breaking generational curses, an obsession with supposedly "casting demons out," and generally just an eccentric way of speaking.

After watching that video, it makes sense that she was saying you spoke a "spirit of doubt" over her. Because people in the deliverance ministry believe that there are specific demons that cause certain problems or sins for people. So she was possibly claiming that a spirit was being cast over her that may cause her to doubt her salvation. The sad part of that is that if there were a "spirit" trying to cause her to see her true (wicked, hell-bound) state, it would have been the Holy Spirit of God revealing the truth to her, but she rejected it along with any scriptures given to her.
"Sorrow is better than laughter: for by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made better." (Ecclesiastes 7:3)

theAXEisLAID

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Re: New Member
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2021, 10:30:51 AM »
I have heard some of her strange charismatic phrases in the circles I used to be part of (before I was saved), like "speaking spirits" over people, breaking generational curses, an obsession with supposedly "casting demons out," and generally just an eccentric way of speaking.
Yes - good point and now that I think about it, every charismatic church building I belonged to (and it was a lot) were all heavily influenced by deliverance ministries. One of the major books for the deliverance ministry is Pigs in the Parlor: A Practical Guide to Deliverance. This book has influenced many people into believing this load of rubbish. The devil gets blamed for a lot of people's personal sin in these circles. Thinking they are casting out their demons (sin) when instead they should be repenting, having faith in Christ and following the word of God.

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. JAMES 4:7
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Matthew 3:10 KJV

Rowan M.

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Re: New Member
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2021, 11:45:52 AM »
That video was excellent. The only slight niggle I would have is that he seemed to imply that it was always wrong to get angry. That is certainly not true, because Jesus got angry sometimes (not least when He was driving the money-changers out of the Temple with a whip!). However, anger can certainly be wrong sometimes, especially if it results from wounded pride, or if someone even gets angry for no real reason. Strive not with a man without cause, if he have done thee no harm. (Proverbs 3:30) But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. (Nearly every modern translation omits the phrase "without a cause" and thereby makes it a sin to simply be angry - compare for yourselves if you wish, although I'm sure you all know, but readers from elsewhere can verify what I just said through that link.) So it is OK to be angry, as long as there is a just cause for it. However, it is still important to guard against sin, even when the anger is for a good reason. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil. (Ephesians 4:26) But being angry in and of itself is certainly not wrong. If it's a constant habit though, that would be a problem.

That aside, the rest of what he said sounded pretty spot on to me. Two things that I particularly liked: firstly, where he said that when Jesus or others cast out devils, they almost never conversed with them (except in the case of "Legion" - and even then, it was quite a short conversation). And also where he pointed out the importance of prayer and fasting. A lot of "spiritual warfare", the way the Charismatics like to practise it, is very carnal. They tend to make it appear "glamorous". For instance, they love to "trash talk" the Devil. They call it "rebuking", but it's just trash talking. There's a passage in Jude that I think addresses this: Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. (Jude 8-10) These guys "trash talk" the Devil because they're lost, "as brute beasts", living for their own lusts and puffing themselves up in pride. Real spiritual warfare on the other hand involves things that deny the flesh. The flesh does not like prayer and fasting. There's nothing glamorous about it. It's actually the polar opposite of the way the Charismatics portray it.

By the way, is anyone familiar with Frank Peretti? I certainly don't recommend him nowadays, but I do remember reading some of his books in the early 1990s. They were kind of "spiritual warfare thrillers" based on Charismatic ideas of spiritual warfare. Not sure if he was into deliverance ministry specifically, but his novels certainly helped popularise Pentecostal/Charismatic spiritual warfare concepts. He does know how to spin a good yarn, and I remember being thoroughly entertained by his books, but there is a lot of bad theology in them and they should be steered well clear of. One thing I have come to realise is that we are often at our most vulnerable to deception when we're being entertained. I think that is perhaps because your guard is down. When you're laughing at something, or being thrilled by it, or getting emotionally involved in it, you are more receptive to its messages, whether it's a TV show, book or song. Some of the deliverance ministries can be "entertaining" in the same way, which is one of the many things that make them so dangerous.
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth (John 17:17)

dmac

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Re: New Member
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2021, 06:14:21 PM »
Rowan Everything you said in your post i totally agree with. "Spiritual thrillers" and "Trash talk the devil" well said

Joshua JZB

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Re: New Member
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2021, 10:42:39 AM »
Sad that she had to be banned but I hope she reads those articles/book and that God gives her understanding.

I appreciate all the discussion on deliverance ministries and such though.
When I first got saved I used to watch this deliverance ministry by this guy named Chris Lasala. He said some firm words in his videos that were good for me to hear at the time, but man he is actually quite insane, and eventually observed that we was quite leavened as well.
He has many videos of himself "casting out" demons. Generally, the videos are of people convulsing and acting very strangely, like they are demon possesed, while Chris is, as Rowan aptly puts it, "trash talking the devil". They go on for quite some time as well, and then they kind just stop, and then the person all of a sudden seems to be normal again. And then he's usually like "we'll have to do this again", like it's a continual process. He used to quote just the first part of Romans 7:18 a lot,
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
The implication being that demons are dwelling in the flesh.

For a while it's bewildered me, and I have wondered what on earth am I witnessing here. But, especially after reading your guys posts, I am concluding that though they might be engaging with real demons and devils (I'm not sure if all the time),  and that it is possible (there seems to be Christians who deny that this stuff happens), it's not something we should seek out, let alone setup an entire ministry around doing such a thing.
For God is my King of old, working salvation in the midst of the earth. - Psalm 74:12

creationliberty

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Re: New Member
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2021, 12:11:43 PM »
If anyone would like to see the resulting emails McKenna sent me after she was banned, you can read them here:
http://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=1402.msg12075#msg12075
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18