Author Topic: Dissolving 501c3 Doesn't Clean the Heart  (Read 20975 times)

creationliberty

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Dissolving 501c3 Doesn't Clean the Heart
« on: January 19, 2019, 07:16:29 PM »

BOB FROM PENNSYLVANIA

I filled Articles of Corporation paperers here in Pennsylvania as a non profit ministry. is this different then a church? Am I required to have 50 (1) C (3) status ? My ministry will be online and speaking engagements.  Thanks, Bob Segalla


I don't know how to answer, you haven't given me any details about what it is you do or teach.


Hi Chris, thanks for getting back to me. I am an ordained minister I preach the gospel, that you must be born a gain and baptized in the name of Jesus. Become a disciple by renewing your mind through the study and meditation of the Holy Scriptures. I was a pastor at several different churches over the last 35 years. God has put a desire in my heart to start a ministry where I use music that I write that is worship music and music that preaches the word of God as well as teach and preach God's word. I filed articles for a non profit ministry here in the state of Pennsylvania.  My question is do I need to have a 501 c 3 to do this type of ministry since I am not a church. Can you give receipts to people for their financial support without it? How do you handle financial support for Creation Liberty Ministries since your not a church?


What's fascinating to me is that you claim to preach the Gospel, and have done so for 35 years, and yet, you think that preaching the Gospel of Christ is somehow disconnected from His church. If you do anything on behalf of the Lord Jesus Christ, then 501c3 ought to have been offensive to you 35 years ago. The reason I'm saying that is because your questions don't make sense from someone who claims to be of Christ, especially one who claims to have taught Scripture for 35 years. If you teach the Bible, then you ought to know it.
But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
-Mat 13:23

False Converts vs Eternal Security
I see a lot of traditions of men in your response (Col 2:8), and perhaps you don't see it yourself. For example, I can tell from your questions that you think the church is a building, which is not what Scripture teaches (1Co 6:19); that's why you say that "Creation Liberty 'Ministries' [is] not a church." This not only means you know nothing about us, nor what I do or teach, but it also means you have a lot of basic principles to learn about Scripture before you even get to the topic of 501c3. Again, if you actually read my teaching, 501c3 is not the source of the problem; 501c3 is only a symptom of the underlying problem. (i.e. You're trying to address the symptom instead of the cause.)
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
-Heb 5:14

You're asking about "giving people receipts" and "handling financial support" which means you're thinking solely about the money in this situation. You ought to be ashamed.
And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
-2Pe 2:3

Furthermore, all you're trying to do is do everything the 501c3 leavened church buildings are doing, but without getting the contract, and the reason you're doing that is because you likely didn't read the entire book I wrote, and you definitely didn't understand it; namely, you think if you get rid of the contract, you'll be right with Jesus, but I can see leaven in you just from what you wrote to me in your letter.
If you want to learn the principles of Christ, I would be more than willing to help teach you that, but in my experience in dealing with so-called "pastors" with decades of experience, I'll probably never hear from you again, because the truth is offensive to such men. Most likely, in this situation, the article you really need to read from our ministry is this one:
Is Repentance Part of Salvation?
That will be far more important because whereas I'm sure you think you've got tons of knowledge and experience, I can tell from your letter that you have very little understanding of Scripture. I have far more I would like to recommend you read or listen to, but if you can't understand that teaching on repentance, then you're not going to understand any of the others, and you especially won't understand you're leavened, and that getting rid of a 501c3 contract will not clean out your heart.
Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
-Mat 23:26



NOTE: He never responded.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2019, 09:49:08 AM by creationliberty »
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

Dee Babbitt

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Re: Dissolving 501c3 Doesn't Clean the Heart
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2019, 07:35:59 PM »
Chris, you spoke very well to him. 
(I learn so much from you and everyone here.)

My eyes have been opened to what is really going on out there...
it is disheartening to know there are thousands of so-called "pastors" out there, who have not repented,
and who are not true born-again believers and Christians.


strangersmind

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Re: Dissolving 501c3 Doesn't Clean the Heart
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2019, 03:55:10 AM »
So he wanted to start a church where you sing the gospel rather then just preach it?

I am trying to picture Chris doing his weekly teaching in song and how long before everyone will start to get annoyed.


Kenneth Winslow

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Re: Dissolving 501c3 Doesn't Clean the Heart
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2019, 02:40:39 PM »
Simply put, these so-called pastors are in the business of business. 🤑 Then they call it The Church of Jesus Christ.
If this guy, after 35 years, hasn't figured out that baptism is not part of the Gospel then I don't think there is much hope for him.
Nehemiah 8:8 KJV — So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

zachshrader

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Re: Dissolving 501c3 Doesn't Clean the Heart
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2019, 06:13:16 PM »
Kenneth,  what do you mean by baptism is not part of the Gospel?

creationliberty

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Re: Dissolving 501c3 Doesn't Clean the Heart
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2019, 06:26:21 PM »
If you go by basic terminology, baptism is part of the Gospel because the word 'Gospel' means doctrine. However, Kenneth specializes in preaches to lost souls on the street, and in that sense, baptism is something that happens after the "Gospel" has been presented and a conversion takes place, or in other words, you don't have to be baptized to be saved, but baptism is something Christians are instructed to do once they repent and believe. (Not to speak for him.)
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

zachshrader

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Re: Dissolving 501c3 Doesn't Clean the Heart
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2019, 06:29:43 PM »
Understood,  thank you Chris.

Tina

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Re: Dissolving 501c3 Doesn't Clean the Heart
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2019, 06:44:22 PM »
Are there any NON 501c3 houses/churches in Ohio or Florida?

Jeanne

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Re: Dissolving 501c3 Doesn't Clean the Heart
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2019, 07:06:18 PM »
Tina, first of all, you need to introduce yourself before you start posting. Please read that rule here:

http://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=20.0

Second, if you read the article on 501(c)(3), you would know that Chris is just one person who has done his research on the topic. He has no knowledge nor way of finding out where non-incorporated churches are. That is something you will have to do on your own, or just become a part of the community here. NONE of us knows where there are unleavened church buildings in our areas, which is one of the main reasons for our being here.

Kenneth Winslow

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Re: Dissolving 501c3 Doesn't Clean the Heart
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2019, 07:46:58 PM »
What I meant was that baptism isn't part of salvation.
I'm not sure if that really was relevant to that email or not.
There were so many things wrong with that guys "ministry" and what he was saying he that email that I suppose I got mixed up on which issue I was trying to address.

Also, I've heard some Christians say that if you aren't specifically baptized "in Jesus name" then you aren't saved and you must be baptized again properly in order to obtain salvation.
Nehemiah 8:8 KJV — So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

Masha

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Re: Dissolving 501c3 Doesn't Clean the Heart
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2019, 10:44:42 AM »
There is a list of non 501 c 3 churches on this website
http://www.independencebaptist.com/churches.html

Even if a church is not  501 c 3 , there can still be a bunch of things wrong with it. Sound doctrine is hard to find. I do not know whether it is a good list as I have never investigated the churches that are on there, but maybe it can help.

creationliberty

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Re: Dissolving 501c3 Doesn't Clean the Heart
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2019, 12:13:28 PM »
Let me clarify that I already answered the matter here:
http://creationliberty.com/faq.php#findchurch

I don't think Masha is considering what she's saying and doing; she is not considering that Tina is not considering that 501c3 is not the source of the problem. Finding a "non-501c3" church building will not solve the problem. Tina hasn't even given us an introduction post yet, so we don't even know who we're talking with.

Providing a list from a website is actually not good in the first place; that's why I've never done it. Just going to the first two people on the list and researching them very quickly, the first guy hasn't had a teaching online since 2010, and he doesn't have any other information about where he is or what he's doing; in fact, you can't even hear any of his teachings because he closed his sermon audio account. The second guy implies that he thinks the USA is the "New Jerusalem," and their church website is literally one page that tells you almost nothing about what they really believe. Masha, knowing nothing at all about Tina's beliefs, why would you even send her that list? You obviously didn't take the time to research anything.

I can almost guarantee what you did was see Tina say, "I want a list" you Google searched for a list, found a list, and posted a list, without first thinking about Tina, and this is why I think Masha and I conflict with one another so much on this forum. Do you honestly believe that we all do not have the capability of google-searching a list? Do you think that I, and others here, have not found such lists before? Do you honestly believe THAT is the reason I (and others here) have never posted any links to sites that have them? There are organizations I know of, who have existed for decades, that are non-501c3 groups, and I (and others here) do not post them ON PURPOSE because we are trying to protect and educate Christians from leaven; however, you are just sending them straight to it without caring at all. (And don't try to excuse yourself and say that you actually did care about Tina when you made that post, because if you cared, you would have taken the time to look into these things first and think about the matter.)

Let me clarify that posting that link for that website is not only NOT helping, but you're actually making the problem worse. Instead of choosing to sit down with Tina and help her understand the source of the problem, you just posted the first thing off the top of your head, and if you wonder why you and I have had so many arguments, and why you're not getting the "edification" you want (which you previously complained about in another thread), this is one of many examples to show you why that is; you simply post quick responses (a lot of which are almost identical to each other) without taking the time to consider what you're saying and doing.

I simply pray that Tina would first educate herself on God's Word and understand the source of the problem (i.e. sin), growing her discernment, before she runs off into leavened church buildings.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 07:19:43 PM by creationliberty »
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

Jeanne

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Re: Dissolving 501c3 Doesn't Clean the Heart
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2019, 04:29:36 PM »
I didn't even go to that website Masha posted; I just looked at the name. Independence Baptist. Independent Baptist churches are no less corrupt than any other organised church buildings. It's a denomination which, as Chris has pointed out before, is NOT Biblical.

Chris, I think that teaching you said you were going to do on denominations is sorely needed, and I'm looking forward to reading it.

All that being said, I found it ironic that Chris has used the example of 'Pastor Bob' to represent all pastors in his teachings on Idolatry, Respecting Persons, and the use of titles in the church and this guy who wrote the email just happens to be a pastor named Bob.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 04:36:49 PM by Jeanne »

Jephte21

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Re: Dissolving 501c3 Doesn't Clean the Heart
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2019, 04:08:01 PM »
[NOTE from ADMIN: This thread was merged because Jephte posted on a completely different thread apart from this one; that's why some of the posts mentioning Carol may not make sense.]
--------------------------------
Chris don't be so harsh on Masha please consider that she has a lot that she's going through right now, as a man I love what you're doing but be gentle sometimes. you don't have to agree with me, just giving you my 2 cents. ;)
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 10:14:48 PM by creationliberty »

Jeanne

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Re: Dissolving 501c3 Doesn't Clean the Heart
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2019, 04:31:08 PM »
Jephte, I don't think this is the thread you meant to post that on. I know which thread you're referring to, though, and Chris was totally justified in what he said. 'Going through a lot' is no excuse for poor judgement in making posts here.

Jephte21

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Re: Dissolving 501c3 Doesn't Clean the Heart
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2019, 04:34:04 PM »
agree but you have to consider that she's the weaker vessel. please correct me if i'm wrong!!

creationliberty

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Re: Dissolving 501c3 Doesn't Clean the Heart
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2019, 04:34:53 PM »
Chris don't be so harsh on Masha please consider that she has a lot that she's going through right now, as a man I love what you're doing but be gentle sometimes. you don't have to agree with me, just giving you my 2 cents. ;)
Carol is asking questions; Masha has nothing to do with this thread. Would please have some consideration for Carol? I can't even figure out how you could come to a completely different thread and make slap-n-run comments on what seems to be the topic of some other discussion. Please consider what you're doing before you make posts Jephte; you've been with us long enough to know better than that.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

Jephte21

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Re: Dissolving 501c3 Doesn't Clean the Heart
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2019, 04:40:12 PM »
sorry Chris it was hard for me the original thread that's why i posted it on this one because they both were about 501c3. sorry again i should done better :-[

Jephte21

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Re: Dissolving 501c3 Doesn't Clean the Heart
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2019, 04:41:33 PM »
you can always take it and put it on the right tread.

creationliberty

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Re: Dissolving 501c3 Doesn't Clean the Heart
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2019, 04:45:49 PM »
Please explain to us how we are supposed to put it on the "right thread" when we have no idea what thread you're referring to.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18