Bonjour!

[jtoubeaux]

Greetings! I have been a Christian since I was around 7 or 8 years old. I am in California and I work in law enforcement. I am married with a very large family (no I am not Mormon or Catholic LOL, although I do get asked that question a lot). I believe in the inerrency of Scripture and read the KJV almost exclusively (meaning I will read a different Bible if I forget mine). I grew up in a Baptist church and had a NKJV Bible throughout most of my adolescent/teenage/young adult years but I did some research on Bible translations and made the choice to switch to the KJV many years ago. I believe in the Bible as literal history (a young earth, creation, the Flood, Moses, Exodus, Paul's conversion, etc) and of course as the unchanging Word of God. I don't really follow any preachers or websites though I do refer often to Answers in Genesis and The Berean Call. I believe the Church is in a devistating downward spiral into apostasy where Christians are deceived at an alarming rate. Anyway, I love Acts 17:11 and 1 Peter 3:15. ALWAYS search Scripture. The answer is in God's Word! I look forward to forum discussions. Thanks!

[stevesams]

Hi Jon,

Welcome to the forum! I just finished reading your intro.  Can you please expound on being a Christian since your were 7 or 8?  I do not discount one can be saved at that age. However, I would just like to hear more about how you were convicted by the law and repented (Godly sorrow for wrong doing - 2 Corinthians 7:10 King James Version (KJV)10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. and believed / put your faith in Christ for your full payment of sin. 

Steve

[Jeanne]

Bonjour, Jon! Comment allez vous? (That's about the extent of the French I remember from 7th and 8th grades...)

Anyway, Steve's question was valid as many (if not most) of us here thought we were saved long before we actually were. I know that's definitely true in my case.

I would suggest reading Chris' article on repentance and what it really means:

http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/repent.php

I used to immerse myself in the teachings from Answers in Genesis (along with ICR and CMI) quite regularly, also -- I have a whole bookcase full of books and DVDs I got from them -- until Chris pointed out how leavened they really are.

How did you happen to run across the CLE website? Were you looking for something in particular when you found us?

Looking forward to hearing from you again.

Jeanne

[jtoubeaux]

Hi Jon,

Welcome to the forum! I just finished reading your intro.  Can you please expound on being a Christian since your were 7 or 8?  I do not discount one can be saved at that age. However, I would just like to hear more about how you were convicted by the law and repented (Godly sorrow for wrong doing - 2 Corinthians 7:10 King James Version (KJV)10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. and believed / put your faith in Christ for your full payment of sin. 

Steve

Hello Steve. My mother married my stepfather in 1975 and she became a Christian a few years later through him. I don't remember the exact date she talked with me about Christ but it was around 1979 or 1980. She shared the gospel and I believed. I was baptized when I was 15 and I fully understood what being a sinner meant and what Christ's death & resurrection meant.

[jtoubeaux]

Bonjour, Jon! Comment allez vous? (That's about the extent of the French I remember from 7th and 8th grades...)

Anyway, Steve's question was valid as many (if not most) of us here thought we were saved long before we actually were. I know that's definitely true in my case.

I would suggest reading Chris' article on repentance and what it really means:

http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/repent.php

I used to immerse myself in the teachings from Answers in Genesis (along with ICR and CMI) quite regularly, also -- I have a whole bookcase full of books and DVDs I got from them -- until Chris pointed out how leavened they really are.

How did you happen to run across the CLE website? Were you looking for something in particular when you found us?

Looking forward to hearing from you again.

Jeanne

LOL Well that's more French than I know haha! My kids are learning French and they can have small coherent conversations with each other. I learned German in HS because they did not offer French but I can't speak much German anymore as that was so many moons ago.

I will read the article, thank you. I wouldn't say I immerse myself in AIG, I just read some of the articles from time to time. I have never really followed ICR either. I don't really follow any "teachings" from others as I believe the Bible is sufficient (and I am naturally a skeptical person); however, of course there are many things I do not fully comprehend or understand and it helps to discuss/ask questions to gain knowledge/understanding (prayer helps too LOL!)

I came across the website because I was continuing some research about the ridiculous Mandela Effect. My brother in law believes in it (and he is a professing Christian) and most unfortunately he convinced my wife (also a professing Christian) to believe in the nonsense as well. My wife is a bit of a conspiracy theorist but we have always been able to have logical discussions about anything except this issue. She still believes it and I do not. It has caused strife in our marriage. I read Chris’ recent article about it and I appreciated his take on it. I also have  researched the Mandela Effect and I agree the idea of God’s Word being “changed” is completely incompatible with Scripture. That is what led me here.

I really need fellowship with other believers as I have yet to find any local churches (near Yosemite/Coulterville) that are not apostate. The pastor at the last church I tried (Lake Don Pedro Baptist) used “The Message” and NPR to tell us to “do good” and support illegal immigration. My wife and I can discuss (and usually agree on) everything Biblical except this Mandela Effect garbage.

[strangersmind]

Ya the hole Mandela Effect thing is just stupid. If I was able to go back in time I shur won't change a child story book lol.

You said you learned what it met to be a sinner. So what does it mean to be a sinner?

[jtoubeaux]

Ya the hole Mandela Effect thing is just stupid. If I was able to go back in time I shur won't change a child story book lol.

You said you learned what it met to be a sinner. So what does it mean to be a sinner?

No kidding. Pop culture would not be my first choice for an 'alternate timeline', but some say it's 'just the beginning' to make it easier to deceive you through ultimately changing the Bible to say Jesus never died for your sins and is not the Son of God.

Romans 3:20-26. I know I am separated from God and cannot justify that separation by my own actions.

[strangersmind]

You should ask, if they went back in time to change something then how do you know it is ever been change?

[strangersmind]

I think you forgot to answer my question. What does it mean to be a sinner?

[jtoubeaux]

You should ask, if they went back in time to change something then how do you know it is ever been change?

My wife said it is from 'residual timelines.'

Note to self: Do not roll eyes and sigh heavily when the wife makes these kind of statements. 

[jtoubeaux]

I think you forgot to answer my question. What does it mean to be a sinner?

I was using Romans 3:20-26 to illustrate what it means to me to be a sinner. I view being a sinner as being separated from God. This began in the Garden and continues today. I am under the penalty of eternal separation from God.

Does that answer your question? 

[anvilhauler]

Hi Jon

Welcome to the forum.  I can understand your frustration with your wife being caught up in the whole Mandela Effect thing.  I hope she is able to see the light soon and leave it all behind her.

I'm not picking or anything like that but it was interesting seeing the comment that people often give.

I am under the penalty of eternal separation from God.

That came up recently in one of the discussions on here.  As someone pointed out and I think it might have been Chris Johnson, that those who spend eternity in Hell aren't actually separated from God

Revelation 14 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Even though it had been brought up in one of the previous versions of the forum, I did a word search on the current forum and it wasn't here so thought it was worth posting again.

[strangersmind]

The separation from God teaching was started only recently. It could have been because they did not want to offend anyone with hell. my brother went into bible college believe in ever lasting hell fire to coming out believe only separate from god.

[Masha]

Hi Jon,
I just wanted to encourage you to fervently pray for your wife, and to keep the Bible in the centre of your strife. Meaning: show her from scripture, don't try to argue with your own reasoning or some-ones opinion/point of view. Me and my husband have many differences and that is difficult at times. Yet our common ground is that we want to serve the Lord, and that gets us through the conflicts, eventually. Sometimes it takes time, for someone to discern and see the truth. It is good to allow the other to learn and grow at their own pace. Sometimes that is slower or different than ours.
When you are on 'opposite sides' it is mostly wiser to pray more than to talk.

Rom 12:12
Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;

Welcome to the forum!

Masha

[jtoubeaux]

Hi Jon

Welcome to the forum.  I can understand your frustration with your wife being caught up in the whole Mandela Effect thing.  I hope she is able to see the light soon and leave it all behind her.

I'm not picking or anything like that but it was interesting seeing the comment that people often give.

I am under the penalty of eternal separation from God.

That came up recently in one of the discussions on here.  As someone pointed out and I think it might have been Chris Johnson, that those who spend eternity in Hell aren't actually separated from God

Revelation 14 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Even though it had been brought up in one of the previous versions of the forum, I did a word search on the current forum and it wasn't here so thought it was worth posting again.

Thanks, and thanks for the scripture from Revelation, I will study on that.

[jtoubeaux]

The separation from God teaching was started only recently. It could have been because they did not want to offend anyone with hell. my brother went into bible college believe in ever lasting hell fire to coming out believe only separate from god.

Thanks for the info. I certainly believe in the reality of hell.

[jtoubeaux]

Hi Jon,
I just wanted to encourage you to fervently pray for your wife, and to keep the Bible in the centre of your strife. Meaning: show her from scripture, don't try to argue with your own reasoning or some-ones opinion/point of view. Me and my husband have many differences and that is difficult at times. Yet our common ground is that we want to serve the Lord, and that gets us through the conflicts, eventually. Sometimes it takes time, for someone to discern and see the truth. It is good to allow the other to learn and grow at their own pace. Sometimes that is slower or different than ours.
When you are on 'opposite sides' it is mostly wiser to pray more than to talk.

Rom 12:12
Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;

Welcome to the forum!

Masha

Thanks for the encouragement. I will continue to pray for her.

[Timothy]

I was using Romans 3:20-26 to illustrate what it means to me to be a sinner. I view being a sinner as being separated from God.

Well, that's strange that you would say you are separated from God and it actually contradicts scripture when you define it like you have. Paul considered himself the chief of sinners in 1 Timothy:

1 Timothy 1:15 - This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

If Paul were to say "I am a sinner saved through faith in Christ", you would have to read it as "I am separate from God, saved through faith in Christ." It doesn't take much to see that it doesn't make any sense. Paul taught that those who draw nigh to God, God will in turn draw nigh to them. That's not separation.

Hebrews 7:19 - For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope(the new covenant) did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

And James also:

James 4:8 - Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

A sinner is simply one who has committed an act against God's law. It's that simple. All you did was put a reference to Romans 3 and gave your personal opinion of what a sinner is. And if you go and read Romans 3, it doesn't even make any sense how you came to that conclusion.

Romans 3:20-26. I know I am separated from God and cannot justify that separation by my own actions.

If you want to claim to be separated from God then go ahead. But you can't claim to be part of God's family and indwelt with the Holy Spirit and be separated at the same time. That simply doesn't make any sense.

[jtoubeaux]

I was using Romans 3:20-26 to illustrate what it means to me to be a sinner. I view being a sinner as being separated from God.

Well, that's strange that you would say you are separated from God and it actually contradicts scripture when you define it like you have. Paul considered himself the chief of sinners in 1 Timothy:

1 Timothy 1:15 - This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

If Paul were to say "I am a sinner saved through faith in Christ", you would have to read it as "I am separate from God, saved through faith in Christ." It doesn't take much to see that it doesn't make any sense. Paul taught that those who draw nigh to God, God will in turn draw nigh to them. That's not separation.

Hebrews 7:19 - For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope(the new covenant) did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

And James also:

James 4:8 - Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

A sinner is simply one who has committed an act against God's law. It's that simple. All you did was put a reference to Romans 3 and gave your personal opinion of what a sinner is. And if you go and read Romans 3, it doesn't even make any sense how you came to that conclusion.

Romans 3:20-26. I know I am separated from God and cannot justify that separation by my own actions.

If you want to claim to be separated from God then go ahead. But you can't claim to be part of God's family and indwelt with the Holy Spirit and be separated at the same time. That simply doesn't make any sense.

I did not mean I am currently separated from God - but I see where the confusion could come in. I was referring to dieing without being saved. I appreciate your response, thank you, it gives me quite a bit to think and pray on.

[Timothy]

Romans 3:20-26. I know I am separated from God and cannot justify that separation by my own actions.

I thought I had quoted this but I didn't. But even if you hadn't said that, based on what you are teaching I would come to the same conclusion. I hope you do think and pray on it because you're in serious error with this. It's concerning that you have supposedly been a Christian so long but still don't understand what it means to be a sinner, because if you don't understand how can we trust that you understand the gospel you claim to believe? I'm not trying to be harsh on you, but we are talking about the salvation of your soul here and it aught to be taken seriously. Based on what you've taught on this and the discernment God has given me I cannot confidently say you're of Christ. I hope I'm wrong, but I'll just have to wait and see how you respond.

The reason I question it is because if you honestly believe that a sinner is someone that is separated from God, then where is the repentance of sin? Because that sounds like you're just lonely and we don't come to Christ because of loneliness, but rather with a repentant heart over sin.