Be Diligent

[HowardMinter]

Be Diligent
Hebrews Chapter 11 verse 6


Do not read this unless you have an open mind, as this may upset some people.

     God used Moses to form the nation of Israel, setting up the priesthood for worship and Elders at the gate for civil government.  Israel was under the Old Testment Law and God actively lead them.  In time, the priesthood became corrupt and God used Samuel as His prophet.  (A teacher of God's will)  The people asked for a King, rejecting God (I Samuel 8:6-8).
     Eventually they began to follow rabbis (Teachers) and made this a position in their religion.  God sent His Christ to them, but the Israelites and their rabbis rejected God's Christ. To this day, they will not accept the Christ and God's plan for them,  however (Romans 11:25-27) they will one day.
     Christ established His new testment church using the Twelve Apostles (one sent for a purpose).  The local church was to be set up much like a large family.  Over seen by Elders (I Peter 5:1-3) for examples of Godly living and teaching and giving counsel (Titus 2:1-7).  Believers were to treat each other with respect and care, and no one was to Lord it over anyone.  (III John 9)
     However over time, the church became corrupt, making many new overlord positions and ruling the believers.  A position of Pope (papa), Matthew 23:9 (call no one Father in the spiritual sense) was set up and he acted much like a king.  The Pope demanded total control over everything, the church, the government, and the people.   He was to be the word of God to the point that the any common man who was caught reading or owning a Bible was disrespecting his position and would be condemned and even put to death.
     Around 1600 AD, the reformed movement started.  The reformers questioned the Pope and the corruption in His church.  They were labeled heretics, hunted, and when caught, they were put to death.  The reformers hoped to fix the corrupt church, but ended up forming a new church movement.
     The reformers had problems like understanding salvation (Armeniansim vs Calvinism).  They demanded to be strong leaders (much like a king) and made up the position of pastor by changing the word Shepherd in Ephesians 4:11 to Pastor, much like the Israelites did with the Rabbi.  The Elders were to shepherd and teach the local believers (I Peter 5:1-3).  These pastors wanted power over the church, the government, and the people (including non believers), completely disobeying Romans 13:1-7.  Some even killed believers for baptizing new believers when they accepted Christ as Lord and Savior.  (The baptizers did not believer that infant baptism was biblical).
     About this time the printing press was invented and the reformers wanted to get their translations of the Bible out so that the common man could have and read a bible.  Many of these bible translations change words and verses during the translating.  Many of the reformers hated the Jewish people and change the Christ's given Hebrew name of Joshua to Jesus.  Look up when the word Jesus was first used.
     A new movement began based on baptizing new believers.  So today we still have the Pope and his chruch, the reformers church, and the Baptist and their church.
     Many of the Baptist churches still use the pastor (overlord) as a position in their church ignoring  I Peter 5:1-3 and the teaching in Titus chapter 1 and I Timothy chapter 3.  Some Baptist churches call young men with little or no experience, just coming out of a bible college to rule over their church and the true elders.  Many of the untested young men do not understand eternal life and use just John 3:16 instead of the whole word of God.  Does just understanding and believing as truth that Joshua died on the cross for man's sin get you eternal life?  The word to believe in John 3:16 (pisteuo) has the meaning of clinging to or adhering to. We are told to teach Matthew 28:19-20 and let God do His' work (Hebrews 5:9 and John 14:23).  Many do not teach how to worship God in Spirit (Acts 5:32) and Truth (II Peter 3:18).  We need to study the word of God and not church doctrine, to truely worship God (John 4:23-24).  Some teach we are to accept everyone into our fellowship. Please read verses such as Ephesians 5:5-7, III John 9-11.  We have fellowship with believers (Psalms 119:63) who fear God and keep His commandments, while we ourselves fear God and keep our Lord's commandments.  (I John 5:1-3)   Most of these pastors will not teach the consequence of refusing to obey the Lord (I John 2:3-4).  It seems that a big building (with its costly overhead) and a big crowd lead by a likeable salesman (with a large salary, running his church like a business needing a cash flow to operate), is the new model of a good church.  When a person goes to college; do they need to pay a professor to teach and rule over them the rest of their lives?  In the church, should not all the older qualified men be Elders?  (I Timothy 3:1-7)?  Is paying a man to be an overlord (Pastor) Biblical? (II Thessalonians 3:7-10)
     Hebrews 5:11-13 show people who are not learning, while II Timothy 2:2 shows good teaching.  The law and the Old Testament were giving to Israel and we can learn much about God and his plan from it, but we are not under the law (Romans 3:20) .  The New Testament tells of Christ and his commandments (I Corinthians 14:37), and how to live, worship, and relate to our Lord in Spirit and Truth.
     Fellow believers should care and help a new believer grow (II Peter 3:18) until he can stand with his own relationship with his Lord, and not have a pastor acting like a priest trying to stand between him and his Lord.
     I ask you to turn from the wrong man made doctrines in many of our churches.   Prepare to defend the Faith (I Peter 3:15), study and learn (and believe) the word of God for yourself (Matthew 23:10 and II Timothy 2:15), but also the warnings in Ephesians 5:5-6 and II Peter 3:16.


     Please read Titus.  This book shows how the church is to be conducted, how the believer should live, and God's part in salvation and sanctification (Titus 2:11-14)  Read Romans Chapter 13 then Ephesians Chapter 5.  If you understand what is being taught in these 2 chapters, you are on your way.

May God richly bless you,


An Old Christian

[Timothy]

I'm just going to be straightforward. This is not an introduction. This doesn't tell us anything about yourself and I can't tell who this is directed to or for what reason. Why are you posting this here and instructing us to put away false doctrines? What false doctrines are you trying to address here?

[HowardMinter]

Hello Timothy,

I did personally write this article.  I sounds like you are one of the say "The say the Magic Words people".  If you do not see salvation in my article, do you really understand what salvation according to the Bible is?  Maybe your doctrine is what I am addressing?  You do not seem to very Christian in your "Lord it over me answer".   The Bible does not allow us to merely accept an idea as real salvation.  It is very specific as that Yeshua must your Lord and Savior.

Howard.

[creationliberty]

Well, there are a few key things missing.

1. I have no idea what this guy believes concerning the Gospel of Jesus Christ. His "introduction" did not bother to explain that. He replaced the Gospel of Jesus Christ with bragging about his seminary degree (SEE HERE), and obviously, he has not bothered to study much of what we believe, otherwise he would already know that such a thing makes us very suspicious of him, simply because seminaries teach a horde of corrupt traditions of men instead of Scripture.

2. We can already tell that he relies on Greek grammar dictionaries as his final authority and grand interpreter of Scripture. Most likely, the seminaries taught him that corrupt method.
See The 'Original Greek' Scam

3. I have no idea what point he's trying to make. He does that thing we all have seen many times from leavened preachers, where they just give Scripture references, but don't quote it or explain it. That is most often because they don't understand it in the first place, and also when they are trying to impress someone into thinking they understand the doctrines, when they really don't. I don't know if that is true with this man, but he is showing me all the same patterns as a typical leavened preacher.

4. Because he does that, we don't know what bible version he's using, so that means we cannot tell if he's using a corrupt new-age version.

5. We are being accused of something:
"I ask you to turn from the wrong man made doctrines in many of our churches."
Well, it seems he is addressing us all by his use of the word "you," so I can only deduce that we are all being accused of turning to man-made doctrines. Okay, which man-made doctrines have we been found guilty of following? He does not make that clear.

Despite all that, I have a couple of very important questions:

Why are you here? What exactly do you want from us?

It does not yet sound like this man has seen much of what I teach. Does he know anyone else here? Or does anyone else recognize his name? I just don't understand registering on this forum to accuse everyone in a very odd, vague, and somewhat arrogant manner, and then expect something fruitful to come out of it. That makes no sense to me, so any explanation would be helpful.


Before I got a chance to post this, Howard responded to Tim:
I did personally write this article.
No one asked you if you wrote an article.

I sounds like you are one of the say "The say the Magic Words people".
Okay, this is getting really strange. I have absolutely no idea what you just said. That's a little odd from someone who said he went to college, and he lives in California. I can't make sense of this; I would presume that you would be able to write in clear English.

If you do not see salvation in my article, do you really understand what salvation according to the Bible is?
No, we are asking YOU that question. We want to know what the Gospel of Jesus Christ is according to YOU. Our testimonies are public on this forum. You have not yet given your testimony of salvation in Jesus Christ. (i.e. Firebombing a bunch of Scripture references does not automatically mean you are of Christ.) If I were to ask you, "How can I be saved?"... what would your answer be?

And I can tell you already that you are going to have to take some time (i.e. slow down) and write in clear English, or we are not going to be able to understand you.

[HowardMinter]

I did not attack anyone or any doctrine specifically.  It seems that this article is meaningful by your attitudes.  Are you spirit filled Christians or modern day Pharisees.  We are obviously wasting our time aren't we?  If you want respect, please first show respect.  You have my permission to remove the article, all postings, and to delete my account.

[Timothy]

However over time, the church became corrupt, making many new overlord positions and ruling the believers.  A position of Pope (papa), Matthew 23:9 (call no one Father in the spiritual sense) was set up and he acted much like a king.

Catholicism is not Christianity and therefore is not part of the church. By saying that the church became corrupt because of the Pope took authority over it means you do not understand what the true church is. The true church purges out leaven, which is false doctrine, while men who cling onto false doctrines and lies form up their own "denomination" of Christianity (like Calvanism, the Baptists and Catholicism). Here is more information on Catholicism and the problem with denominations:

http://creationliberty.com/articles/religioncatholic.php
http://creationliberty.com/articles/denominations.php

"Many of the reformers hated the Jewish people and change the Christ's given Hebrew name of Joshua to Jesus.  Look up when the word Jesus was first used."

I'm skeptical of when people come in and claim that "Jesus' real name is this or that." Typically those same people bring in false doctrines with them. Every language out there has their own translation of Jesus' name from Greek or Hebrew. In English, as far as I understand, it's "Jesus." God preserved His word in English for us in the King James Bible. That's what we believe here. This article has more information on that.

http://creationliberty.com/articles/kingjames.php

Does just understanding and believing as truth that Joshua died on the cross for man's sin get you eternal life?  The word to believe in John 3:16 (pisteuo) has the meaning of clinging to or adhering to. We are told to teach Matthew 28:19-20 and let God do His' work (Hebrews 5:9 and John 14:23).

Matthew 19:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

What exactly do you say the Gospel of Jesus Christ is? You seem to put a lot of emphasis in "obeying" God in context of salvation. Can you tell us the Gospel plainly?

I sounds like you are one of the say "The say the Magic Words people".

Are you referring to those that say "Repeat this prayer of salvation after me?" I do not know what you are talking about. It's clear you haven't read anything I've written here on the forum because I don't teach people to say "Magic words."

If you do not see salvation in my article, do you really understand what salvation according to the Bible is?

I do understand salvation, but I'm asking you what you say salvation is. In your post, you asked the question, "Does just understanding and believing as truth that Joshua died on the cross for man's sin get you eternal life?" You didn't clearly answer this and I'm asking you to explain what is necessary for salvation beyond "believing it as truth." The bible does in fact teach that belief is not the only component necessary for salvation, but you haven't made it clear what you believe that to be.

Maybe your doctrine is what I am addressing?

You ended that with a question mark as if you are not even sure what you came here to address. You didn't directly say what doctrine is being taught wrong. You just told us to "turn from man made doctrines" without telling us what you are referring to. Let's assume there is something we are doing wrong. Is it not the charitable thing to do to explain the error to us who, supposedly,  do not have understanding of something? Where is your charity?

I did not attack or doctrine specifically.

Now in your next post, you claim that you aren't addressing anything specifically. Then why did you respond to me with "Maybe your doctrine is what I am addressing?" That shows you said this in pride and anger in your heart in response to me asking what false doctrine you are claiming we teach. What do you honestly expect when you don't explain the point you are trying to make?

Ephesians 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

When you make a claim about us teaching false doctrine, respond to us with a contentious comment and then say that you were never addressing any doctrine we teach, you are not bridling your tongue and it shows the bitterness, anger and carelessness of the words you say to us for simply asking you straightforward questions.

You have my permission to remove the article, all postings, and to delete my account.

He edited his last post after I had prepared this response and updated the page. Doesn't seem like he is willing to answer simple questions.

[HowardMinter]

Hello,

This exchange of words is very interesting.  I am an acquaintance of Howard and am just observing to see if I would like to register for your site.

If I understand what you are saying, if you can get Howard to say the words or just answer your questions, then you will believe he is a Christian?  Please read I John Chapter 2:3-5.

If you have the training, please look at the translation of John 3:16 from the Received Text. "For so loved God the world, so as the Son of Him, the only begotten, he gave so that everyone believing INTO Him (note into), may not perish but have life everlasting. 

It appears you are not trying to understand what was written, and trying to discredit Him.  His article was never meant to discredit you or your ministry, but to start a discussion and bring up some issues.  Looking at your attitudes and demeaning replies such as labeling and taking his words out of context, it seems like you are resorting to bullying tactics.  Are pearls being casting before swine,  Matthew 7:6. I pray that this is not the case.  Please re-read your replies.  Did you really read the article objectively or did you just not understand it?  This discussion should have never resorted to personal attacks.

I am using Howard's login as I am not sure if would want to register on this site yet.

I do not wish to argue with you or Howard, but merely am reading the discussion to understand your opinions and point of views.

Daniel Lee
(Concerned seeker of the truth and looking for convincing evidence) 

[Timothy]

I went ahead and banned him since Howard left on his own and asked for his account to be deleted. His friend Daniel here who logged into Howard's account is accusing us of demeaning behavior, discrediting Howard's posts, bullying him and taking his words out of context. All that for simply pointing out that he is not explaining himself and asking him questions. Daniel literally said "It appears you are not trying to understand what was written, and trying to discredit him" in response to us asking Howard to explain what he was writing. That makes no sense. Neither of these guys wanted to come here for real discussion, but were rather trying to push their leaven on all of us.  I'm not going to let that fly.

[creationliberty]

I hope you IP banned this account. Earlier, I did a search on his email username, and the name "Daniel" came up too. That's why when I saw the name "Daniel" from the other guy, this started making more sense. I think this is not the first time they have pulled this, and we want nothing to do with them. I pray the Lord Jesus Christ would show them as much mercy as He has shown us, and I hope they have a great week.

[Timothy]

I added a ban on the IP.