Returning as guest

[creationliberty]

Just to clarify, in case for some reason you are not understanding what we're asking, we did not request that you had to give your life story. We simply were asking you to give a testimony of your conversion to Jesus Christ. For someone who is reluctant to write anything because he thinks he can't write things very well, you seem to have a unique ability to beat around the bush, which is confusing me.

After scanning through a lot of what you wrote, this paragraph alone seems to be your conversion testimony, correct?

It was only until I left high school and began using the internet that I began to do some digging around, and I do have to say that I hardly read the bible during that time; I had stumbled across a certain site on the web (Jesus is savior.com) which was quite controversial to look at, I noticed on many of his articles that he would mention the gospel which is the good news. and I loved it because it was exactly like what he said, good news. and I believed it. and I remember being extremely happy, and spirited, and zealous. I actually remember writing down many of the things he had said into a journal. I had still been to a lesser degree in the motions of sin, and that because of my past sins, namely lust, worldliness/covetousness. and this still continued on a bit for some time 'til I had begun to hit my early twenties. but I noticed even ever since my conversion some changes. 1) I had begun to pay attention to God. 2) God began to write his word on the tablet of my heart; i.e. I began to memorize his word. 3) I began to antagonize sin, save only those ones that I didn't provide much of a defense against. because I believe that I still had a coping issue, and my sin of lust was still quite strong in me. and in the end I had kept this thing to myself that the degree of my lust began to rise. and this is why I still sinned much later on in my life. but now I noticed that the flesh had a hard time governing over me, because I was resisting it. I was in the Spirit, though the fleshly influences were still there.

Let's review:

I noticed on many of his articles that he would mention the gospel which is the good news. and I loved it because it was exactly like what he said, good news. and I believed it. and I remember being extremely happy, and spirited, and zealous.
Okay, that confirms for me that you were not brought to repentance by the Holy Ghost. What you just said is not how men are saved according to Scripture. If you want to understand that more, then I would recommend this:
Why Millions of Believers on Jesus Are Going to Hell
But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon [i.e. quickly] with joy receiveth it; Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
-Matthew 13:20-21

I had still been to a lesser degree in the motions of sin
I guarantee you that no one on this forum can understand that sentence. I have no idea what it means to be "in the motions of sin to a lesser degree." That is the kind of statement you get from someone who is trying to avoid saying something directly, and it puts me on guard because it is the proud of heart that makes those kinds of statements.
But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
-James 4:6-10

For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
-2Co 7:10

because of my past sins, namely lust, worldliness/covetousness
So you were in the motions of lust, but not in lust as much as others, just to a lesser degree, and the same with covetousness? Again, I see someone dodging the truth to convince us of something, not someone who understands the truth of Scripture. When it comes to sin, you are telling us "Kind of, but not really, but sort of." That's not a statement that comes from one who has understood the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
-1 John 1:9-10

I noticed even ever since my conversion some changes. 1) I had begun to pay attention to God. 2) God began to write his word on the tablet of my heart; i.e. I began to memorize his word. 3) I began to antagonize sin
Wait... where was the conversion? It's as if you completely skipped it. Did you realize that (if I read your testimony correctly) the only times you mentioned Jesus Christ were when you talked about what you were told you have to believe about Him, and then later at the end, you mentioned Him again in the "optional" section.

I'm having to guess based on your timeline, but this was supposed to be close to a decade ago, and it still seems like you have no understanding of God's Word. I'm not saying you have to know everything, but these are the basics of the Gospel. Are we to believe that the Holy Ghost has kept you in ignorance for the better part of a decade? Or is it more reasonable to say that you have never come to repentance and do not understand what that means according to God's Word?

Again, I would recommend reading the short book in the link above; it's free-to-read. After you read that, come back and talk with us again about your thoughts on it.

The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

[Unemployed2310]

But all that aside, the more pressing concern is whether you have been born again. Given your main influence (Mr Stewart), your understanding of repentance (based on his ideas) and admitted lack of contrition, I fear you may not have been. I won't disagree that you've changed, but people can change (up to a point) without being saved. Eternity is a long time to be wrong, so I would urge you to carefully consider your spiritual condition. Please do this for your own sake. It is out of my own concern for your soul that I have written all this.

Wow, I'm surprised I haven't convinced anyone with my last post. Sorry, I'm not really in the best condition today to be replying to all of the different topics that you've written up above, but I could try anyway if you'd like. If it makes you guys feel better, then I'd like you to know that I don't just believe every word someone tells me, whether they're respectable as a teacher or not, as they could of course be in error. It's still our duty to see whether those things, which they speak, are so.. Everyone of us, I'm sure, has their shortcomings.

[Unemployed2310]

But all that aside, the more pressing concern is whether you have been born again. Given your main influence (Mr Stewart), your understanding of repentance (based on his ideas) and admitted lack of contrition, I fear you may not have been. I won't disagree that you've changed, but people can change (up to a point) without being saved. Eternity is a long time to be wrong, so I would urge you to carefully consider your spiritual condition. Please do this for your own sake. It is out of my own concern for your soul that I have written all this.

Wow, I'm surprised I haven't convinced anyone with my last post. Sorry, I'm not really in the best condition today to be replying to all of the different topics that you've written up above, but I could try anyway if you'd like. If it makes you guys feel better, then I'd like you to know that I don't just believe every word someone tells me, whether they're respectable as a teacher or not, as they could of course be in error. It's still our duty to see whether those things, which they speak, are so.. Everyone of us, I'm sure, has their shortcomings.

[Unemployed2310]

Just to clarify, in case for some reason you are not understanding what we're asking, we did not request that you had to give your life story. We simply were asking you to give a testimony of your conversion to Jesus Christ. For someone who is reluctant to write anything because he thinks he can't write things very well, you seem to have a unique ability to beat around the bush, which is confusing me.

After scanning through a lot of what you wrote, this paragraph alone seems to be your conversion testimony, correct?

It was only until I left high school and began using the internet that I began to do some digging around, and I do have to say that I hardly read the bible during that time; I had stumbled across a certain site on the web (Jesus is savior.com) which was quite controversial to look at, I noticed on many of his articles that he would mention the gospel which is the good news. and I loved it because it was exactly like what he said, good news. and I believed it. and I remember being extremely happy, and spirited, and zealous. I actually remember writing down many of the things he had said into a journal. I had still been to a lesser degree in the motions of sin, and that because of my past sins, namely lust, worldliness/covetousness. and this still continued on a bit for some time 'til I had begun to hit my early twenties. but I noticed even ever since my conversion some changes. 1) I had begun to pay attention to God. 2) God began to write his word on the tablet of my heart; i.e. I began to memorize his word. 3) I began to antagonize sin, save only those ones that I didn't provide much of a defense against. because I believe that I still had a coping issue, and my sin of lust was still quite strong in me. and in the end I had kept this thing to myself that the degree of my lust began to rise. and this is why I still sinned much later on in my life. but now I noticed that the flesh had a hard time governing over me, because I was resisting it. I was in the Spirit, though the fleshly influences were still there.

Let's review:

I noticed on many of his articles that he would mention the gospel which is the good news. and I loved it because it was exactly like what he said, good news. and I believed it. and I remember being extremely happy, and spirited, and zealous.
Okay, that confirms for me that you were not brought to repentance by the Holy Ghost. What you just said is not how men are saved according to Scripture. If you want to understand that more, then I would recommend this:
Why Millions of Believers on Jesus Are Going to Hell
But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon [i.e. quickly] with joy receiveth it; Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
-Matthew 13:20-21

I had still been to a lesser degree in the motions of sin
I guarantee you that no one on this forum can understand that sentence. I have no idea what it means to be "in the motions of sin to a lesser degree." That is the kind of statement you get from someone who is trying to avoid saying something directly, and it puts me on guard because it is the proud of heart that makes those kinds of statements.
But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
-James 4:6-10

For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
-2Co 7:10

because of my past sins, namely lust, worldliness/covetousness
So you were in the motions of lust, but not in lust as much as others, just to a lesser degree, and the same with covetousness? Again, I see someone dodging the truth to convince us of something, not someone who understands the truth of Scripture. When it comes to sin, you are telling us "Kind of, but not really, but sort of." That's not a statement that comes from one who has understood the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
-1 John 1:9-10

I noticed even ever since my conversion some changes. 1) I had begun to pay attention to God. 2) God began to write his word on the tablet of my heart; i.e. I began to memorize his word. 3) I began to antagonize sin
Wait... where was the conversion? It's as if you completely skipped it. Did you realize that (if I read your testimony correctly) the only times you mentioned Jesus Christ were when you talked about what you were told you have to believe about Him, and then later at the end, you mentioned Him again in the "optional" section.

I'm having to guess based on your timeline, but this was supposed to be close to a decade ago, and it still seems like you have no understanding of God's Word. I'm not saying you have to know everything, but these are the basics of the Gospel. Are we to believe that the Holy Ghost has kept you in ignorance for the better part of a decade? Or is it more reasonable to say that you have never come to repentance and do not understand what that means according to God's Word?

Again, I would recommend reading the short book in the link above; it's free-to-read. After you read that, come back and talk with us again about your thoughts on it.

The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18

The "motions of sins" phrase was something I adopted from a Bible commentator (I don't remember which), but yeah I probably didn't use the phrase right to begin with. But all that phrase really means is that sin had dominion over one's life, they were given to it. Also, in case you were wondering, I wrote this testimony in a hurry, thinking that my brother meant a life story, but yeah as you can see, and what I'm being told now, is that I actually didn't write a testimony at all. So now I haven't the slightest clue what one should look like. The one who made an approving comment to my testimony, sorry about that (it wasn't a testimony apparently).

I wrote my life's story a year ago.

Well, I guess that makes me one of the more loftier Christians, but that would also make me the least in the kingdom of heaven.
And I agree with you, Christopher, none of us sinners are without sin.

[Ellie]

Wow, I'm surprised I haven't convinced anyone with my last post.

The fact that you are surprised makes sense based on what others have said to you so far. Most people who claim that they are Christians will accept nearly anything as a "testimony" even though it has nothing resembling repentance and true faith as it's spoken of in the Bible. But here, we believe in the scriptures that define repentance as godly sorrow for wrongdoing, and we have been born again ourselves by the grace of God in giving us that repentance and faith. We have discernment by the Holy Spirit to be able to see that you have not come to repentance and faith, so that's why we aren't convinced. However, you said yourself that you never had contrition so there was not much discernment needed in that instance since you were plainly telling us the truth. I'm glad that you have at least been honest about that after you were told what repentance meant because there are many times where people will just pretend that they have godly sorrow after we point out that it is absent in their testimony.

Also, in case you were wondering, I wrote this testimony in a hurry, thinking that my brother meant a life story, but yeah as you can see, and what I'm being told now, is that I actually didn't write a testimony at all. So now I haven't the slightest clue what one should look like.

I am glad that you are able to admit this. Nobody is upset with you for "not having a testimony," but what we are concerned with is your salvation. What you need to know is that if you do not come to godly sorrow of your sin (repent) toward God and come to faith in Jesus Christ, then you will face the just punishment for your iniquity--eternal torment in hell and the lake of fire.

I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. - Luke 13:3

Have you ever listened to or read the repentance teaching that Rowan linked earlier? Or the "Why Millions of Believers on Jesus are Going to Hell" one? I very highly recommend either one of these for you if you genuinely want to know more about this. Sometimes it's easier to listen to the recorded version rather than read it, so that's what I linked.

Edit:

Well, I guess that makes me one of the more loftier Christians, but that would also make me the least in the kingdom of heaven.

I need to clarify this after your last edit, because I'm not sure that you have understood what's been said. You are not a "loftier Christian." The fact that you even said that just demonstrates the pride of your heart. If you have no contrition (repentance) over your sin, then you are not saved. You are not a Christian if you have never come to repentance.

But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. - James 4:6

[Unemployed2310]

I see what the complication is, and it's directly linked to the gospel itself, because if I don't acknowledge what you believe what a conversion should look like, then I'm more than likely not going to be welcome here. Frankly speaking, you must think that I believe in a false gospel, here let me see if I can clear things up, and mind you I still believe what David said about repentance on a few of his articles, of course not the one that was shared here. What you apparently saw was David paraphrasing repentance, that might've been writers fatigue on his end due to the endless amount of articles he writes. He likely simplified it. Anyway here let me clear this up. It's going to be a bit long, and I wrote this as if I was trying to tell someone the gospel. It was written with the assumption that someone didn't know it.

*||The Gospel of Jesus Christ||*
_The good news of the gospel is (finally) knowing that those who believe on the Christ are no longer going to be sent to Hell._

If you don't mind, I would like to show you something that has changed my life. I'd like to present to you the gospel of the salvation of mankind. Btw, I'm posting this with the assumption that you don't know it. Also, you're going to be needing a kjv bible to 100% confirm what I'm saying. But it's okay if you don't have one, because you could simply look up bible verses on sites such as "Biblehub.com". Now, if you haven't heard of Christianity; it's about Jesus Christ (God the Son, the second person of the Godhead, who became flesh *(John 1:14);* who's both fully God and fully man - he's also referred to as the "Son of God" *(John 11:27),* and the "living Word"), who was born of a virgin named Mary, performed many miracles, taught sacred doctrine, and was crucified for our transgressions. He was sent by God the Father (the first person of the Godhead) to atone for our sins, he (Jesus) himself being sinless (Heb. 4:15), and atoned for them by the shedding of his own blood (he was crucified by the Romans, and was ridiculed by his own people - the Jews). He was even betrayed by his friend, Judas Iscariot, beforehand. But he persevered and persisted onwards in his suffering to deliver us from the "death" which humanity was fated to experience, Hell. He loved us so much that he gave his life for us. And the Father loved us so much that he was even willing to deliver his only begotten Son into their hands for our sake. Of course, God hates sin/evil (such like murder, lust, and hate; i.e. all wrongdoing or moral evil: sin is the transgression of the law of God), but he wished to deliver us, in spite of the cost. And after his death, Jesus was buried in the tomb, was risen from the dead 3 days later, giving us this magnificent hope that we too shall not only be delivered from sin and Hell, but also that we shall also see him, being risen from the dead ourselves.

His shed blood was the payment for sin. He died, reconciling us to the Father *(Rom. 5:10-11),* paying for everyone's sins (including all nations, peoples, and languages), all of them (any and every kind - *col. 2:13),* and for all time (past, present, and future - *Heb. 10:10-12),* making it as if we never sinned. And that was what the Father (and Jesus) wanted *(John 3:17);* he sent Jesus to deliver us from Hell and to take away all sin *(John 12:47; 1 John 3:5).* Now, all that's left for you to do is *believe* upon Jesus Christ. Believe in Jesus' finished work at Calvary/Golgotha (the place he died at). *Trust/rely upon Jesus for the deliverance of your soul,* because the Father wished for us to place our faith in him. That was the way of salvation that he made for us. Yes, allow him to be your savior, trusting completely on him, as there is nothing that we ourselves can do to save ourselves. Acknowledge him as the savior that he is. Jesus Christ is the only name on earth (under heaven) _whereby (by which)_ a man may be saved. No man comes to the Father but by the Son *(John 14:6).* He that believes on the Christ (the prophesied messiah), _he_ shall he save to the uttermost; i.e. you can never lose your salvation once you've put your faith in him *(John 6:39).* And he gives his Spirit (the third person of the Godhead) to any who believe on him *(Eph. 1:13).* *Faith* pleases God. So, to sum up, it's *Faith* alone in Christ alone: This is the grace (unmerited favor) of God. He's _that_ merciful; yes, eternal life (even salvation) is a free gift *(John 3:16; Rom. 6:23).* God even created us for a loving relationship with him, and he now wishes to restore it.

And, if you're willing, but are having trouble to believe because of something, then I suggest that you try resting your worries and cares upon him (I myself, however, was an opportunist), and pray that he'll help you to believe upon him. *(repentance)* Everyone must understand that they're sinners, guilty before God and are very sinful (so much so that they cannot deliver themselves - they may even realize that they needed to be sinless from the womb), and that they're in need of a Savior, even Jesus Christ *(repentance).* It's a religious term which means "to change one's mind/attitude"; it's the act of going from unbelief to belief (trust); it's an hatred of sin and a love for God (Jesus),... it's an event, not a process. And this attitude towards God and sin continues on for the rest of one's life. Please, believe the gospel of salvation in Jesus (God saved you in advance; he's forgiven you at the cross 2000 years ago), and don't delay as tomorrow is never guaranteed or promised to anyone (Right now the unbeliever is only *potentially* forgiven, but they'll need to believe on Jesus Christ in order to be *actually* forgiven by God).

There, now if you believe the gospel you'll be a Christian too (which would lead to extraordinary change), just like me. lol. Well, I posted this for you for your sake. Btw, I highly recommend that you please still get a kjv (the only reliable source of the word of God) for yourself, and read it to confirm everything I've typed. Hope you remember this great service that you've received today. 😊❤😊❤
---

Help sinners realize how hopeless their current situation is.. here, just some phrases you can add to your repertoire. All of this is from me. You can use them if you like.
_"Believe on the Lord Jesus with all the heart. Believe in the gospel of salvation through Jesus Christ and you shall be saved, and your sins shall God remember no more."_
_"Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life. Neither can anyone go to heaven, nor can anyone come to the Father, but by him."_
_"Only believers can receive the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost moves believers to do the Lord's will. And in order to claim to have the mind of Christ; we must always, unfailingly continue to abhor sin."_
_"No man can say that they're without sin. We must accept that we're guilty of sin, and that we're in need of a savior, in order that we may be saved."_
_"Trust in the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission (forgiveness) of sins and you'll be saved."_
_"Simply acknowledge the Christ as your redeemer and you shall be saved. He can and shall save you, according to his word. You can trust in these words because he never lies and because he too is God."_
_"Salvation is based on faith, not works. No one shall boast before anyone, much less God, even (and especially) in heaven."_
_"We have all fallen short of the glory of God. None are good, but God alone. We are altogether as an unclean thing. Our works are so undesirable, and our sins so repugnant to the nostrils of God that He will not except our efforts in any wise."_
You could start improvising to improve. Also, copy/pasting will not pass too well as being genuine.
_"What hope is their for us, then (save in Jesus Christ)? For we had to be perfect from the womb 'til the day of our death in order that we may get by on works alone, but clearly (and scripturally) that can only be the case for God Himself."_

*Please don't become comfortable in your fallen state (sinnership), and believe that anything short of perfection is acceptable with God. God has never shown approval of anyone with sin on them. In fact, the scripture only appears to support that those who [believe] shall make it to heaven.*
..God requires perfection.. So sad, but looks like at this rate Hell awaits many, as the scripture says (Matt. 7:14). But you don't have to fear, because Jesus came, and when he said he came to save he came to save indeed. If we say that we by our own efforts must earn our salvation, then sorry but we've missed the gospel message/the good news of Christ Jesus (pride has taken hold our hearts). Does Jesus ever save those who believe they must ultimately work their way into or put some effort towards gaining heaven? No. We can't deny that those who believe that they're doing the good works for *the chance to enter heaven* may be doing a good job at it.. However, that my friends is works, that is your own effort, that's saying that your salvation still somehow depends on yourself. Another issue here folks is that people are being presumptuous towards Christians, in that they think that those who support eternal security (or "osas") believe they're perfect or sinless, or think that they're now above the law of God. No, they're completely wrong. Lol. Osas is true, regardless of how a person lives (yes, that's how I'm wording. See? Looks negative doesn't it?) But God said....

*BUT* the word of God says not of works. Why? Lest any man should [boast]. It's entirely related to pride (and 'also' to our hopelessly fallen state). And then shortly after saying "lest ye should boast" God says "ye were created unto good works". Does the scripture EVER condone sin? No. Does God say we must repent (to enter the kingdom) in the first three books of the New testament? Yes, however, what repentance ultimately means to me is *to come unto God for the forgiveness of sins* (you're changing you're mind in the process concerning your lost sinful state and acknowledging that Christ alone is our only hope for salvation). Does he also say that we must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved, just as it says in the book of acts with the jail warden, as the only requirement? Yes. Did the eunuch have to do anything as a prerequisite to get baptized in the river in the book of acts? Yes, he needed to *believe on the Lord Jesus Christ with all his heart,* trusting in his perfect redemptive work, the sacrifice for sins *past, present, and future (his sacrifice was of eternal quality).* I have no confidence in my works; I cannot make it by my own power. It's to God alone that the work of salvation belongs/is merited to. Otherwise, it can be said that Christ' work was imperfect, having never saved to the uttermost, and that we can become our own saviors. *Imperfect salvation is not salvation at all, only God can make us perfect.* _Jesus came to save us._
---
Truly repent because the times are getting rough, and people are hating God. Please, place your full trust in Jesus, because Hell is forever.
*Repent: acknowledge your sinfulness and then go to God for the forgiveness of sins.* You need not beg for forgiveness or mercy, for God has already forgiven you at the cross. Jesus died for you, paying for your sins, taking them away, and reconciled you unto the Heavenly Father by that sacrifice. Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is our salvation. As the bible says, Eternal life is a free 🎁. And all you have to do to receive it is to obey the gospel. The gospel: The Heavenly Father made a way for mankind to be saved; he did not desire to leave us to die in our sins, but he had perfect *compassion and love* for us, and so He sent his Son (who also loved us) to die for us. In return, all we have to do is place our faith (belief & trust) on the Son of the living God for the forgiveness of sins, believing on him with all the heart. But he that has yet to believe is already condemned, and shall not see life. And as a result of that faith; you shall receive the Spirit of God. You shall receive a changed heart/mind/will, desiring the things of God instead of what the unregenerate, unbeliever would desire. You can have confidence in him, for even the Son _is_ God, he stays true to his word, and 3 days after his death; he rose from the dead, having suffered the punishment of the world's sins, yet being sinless. (Read the gospel message as many times as you need to in order to fully understand the goodness of God). Rejoice: for all who come to the Son of God in faith shall never be cast away from him, you are eternally secure in him and are now become the Father's child.

_Hell is a place that all rightfully deserve to go to. A place so fitting for the sinful heart which is so desperately wicked._
_And we've indeed despitefully and greatly trespassed against God for the love of darkness. A Holy God requires justice, for the wages of sin is death._
_But God be thanked that He did not abandon us to our fate,_
_but desired to restore His relationship with us._
_We do not deserve your mercy Lord God our Creator and righteous King;_
_Your timeless grace is our blessing, you make us eternally happy, and your gift resulted in our peace & rest. Amen._

I hope you too shall find your rest in the Lord. God bless. 😊❤🥰
---

To those who're still finding it hard to believe, or who may still be in denial. All I simply said was that _all a person needs to do_ is trust on the blood atonement of Jesus Christ for their sins, because Jesus has paid for them, death is our wages for sin, and sin is our debt to God which we cannot pay. Upon believing on Jesus Christ for the redemption of our souls are we finally saved from sin and everlasting destruction, and we receive forgiveness of sins and reconciliation with the Heavenly Father. Jesus is indeed able to save us from our sins, after all _that's why he came._ And it's Satan who wants to keep people from believing in the _simplicity that is in Christ._ Upon believing you will have repented, because you would've turned from relying on self to make it into heaven, and you would've turned to God aka Jesus for that.

_How does one receive the free gift of eternal life?_ by believing on Jesus Christ _(John 6:54; Rom. 6:23; 1 Tim. 1:16 kjv)._
_How is a man born-again?_ by believing on Jesus Christ.
_How does someone receive the Spirit of God?_ by believing on Jesus Christ.
_How does someone fulfill the whole law?_ by believing on Jesus Christ (because he fulfilled it for us).
_How does one call on the name of the Lord?_ by believing on Jesus Christ.
_How does one receive the kingdom of God as a little child?_ by exercising child-like faith in Christ.
_How is one justified in the sight of God?_ by believing on Jesus Christ. _(Gal. 2:16)_
_What's the will of God?_ to believe on Jesus Christ. _(Matt. 7:21-23; John 6:39-40)_
_How does one believe on Jesus Christ?_ by placing one's faith on the finished work of Jesus Christ, entrusting him with your very soul.
_Why is it so important to trust in Jesus?_ because it's impossible for a person to get into heaven by their own merit. And part of the reason for why it's impossible is because we abide in sinful flesh.
The truth hasn't changed for all these years (which is found only in the kjv [King James Version Bible]). Please especially consider the fact that God's word has survived to this day. So I'm certain that He's serious about these things.
---

A person can be one of the worst, most notorious of sinner's on this planet and yet can still be saved from their sins (that means there is still hope for such people). And if ever a Christian were to commit suicide they'd still go to heaven. (Thus, truth like this can indeed be hard to swallow, but that's the true reality of the Gospel). But us true believers prioritize the word of God before ourselves (though, not perfectly of course) so no need to worry about us, you should worry about yourselves. But unfortunately it looks like a lot of people still haven't accepted the unmerited favor or undeserved mercy of God. That's understandable though, because the truth has been greatly modified and suppressed in this world.
Also, in case anyone is curious, what I've just described is referred to as *"once saved, always saved."*

[Unemployed2310]

Wow, I'm surprised I haven't convinced anyone with my last post.

The fact that you are surprised makes sense based on what others have said to you so far. Most people who claim that they are Christians will accept nearly anything as a "testimony" even though it has nothing resembling repentance and true faith as it's spoken of in the Bible. But here, we believe in the scriptures that define repentance as godly sorrow for wrongdoing, and we have been born again ourselves by the grace of God in giving us that repentance and faith. We have discernment by the Holy Spirit to be able to see that you have not come to repentance and faith, so that's why we aren't convinced. However, you said yourself that you never had contrition so there was not much discernment needed in that instance since you were plainly telling us the truth. I'm glad that you have at least been honest about that after you were told what repentance meant because there are many times where people will just pretend that they have godly sorrow after we point out that it is absent in their testimony.

Also, in case you were wondering, I wrote this testimony in a hurry, thinking that my brother meant a life story, but yeah as you can see, and what I'm being told now, is that I actually didn't write a testimony at all. So now I haven't the slightest clue what one should look like.

I am glad that you are able to admit this. Nobody is upset with you for "not having a testimony," but what we are concerned with is your salvation. What you need to know is that if you do not come to godly sorrow of your sin (repent) toward God and come to faith in Jesus Christ, then you will face the just punishment for your iniquity--eternal torment in hell and the lake of fire.

I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. - Luke 13:3

Have you ever listened to or read the repentance teaching that Rowan linked earlier? Or the "Why Millions of Believers on Jesus are Going to Hell" one? I very highly recommend either one of these for you if you genuinely want to know more about this. Sometimes it's easier to listen to the recorded version rather than read it, so that's what I linked.

Edit:

Well, I guess that makes me one of the more loftier Christians, but that would also make me the least in the kingdom of heaven.

I need to clarify this after your last edit, because I'm not sure that you have understood what's been said. You are not a "loftier Christian." The fact that you even said that just demonstrates the pride of your heart. If you have no contrition (repentance) over your sin, then you are not saved. You are not a Christian if you have never come to repentance.

But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. - James 4:6

I was talking to Christopher when I wrote the loftier Christian part. I wrote that as to say that if all those things he said about me was indeed true, then I was in fact the least in the kingdom of heaven. Sorry that you guys can't catch on to my wavelength, it must be the residual autistic bad habits that are still left inside me.

Also, no I haven't read those articles, thoroughly anyway. I'll try once I feel better. I'm pretty sleep deprived, right now.

[Unemployed2310]

From what I can gather, the site jesus-is-savior.com played a key role in your conversion. I remember looking at that site a few years ago. If I recall correctly, it is run by a man named David Stewart. While there were some good things on that site, there were things about it that troubled me. For one thing, he seemed to have a rather prideful spirit. For another, some of his articles had a decidedly anti-Semitic flavour.

Just commenting quickly to say that, sometime in the future, I will be releasing an expose on David J. Stewart, the owner and operator of jesus-is-savior.com. Here is a quote I recovered from his site that he quickly took down after some people noticed his strange comments:
"I personally am not a Christian or a member of any religion for that matter, however even I can see the inherent evil in this philosophy."
-David J. Stewart, "The Tower of Babel Today," Internet Archives Wayback Machine, retrieved June 23, 2021, [https://web.archive.org/web/20130728001955/http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Illuminati/tower_of_babel.htm]

If you can indeed find very telling or suspicious things about David J. Stewart, concerning his conversion, then I don't mind you exposing him. After all, we need to weed out the tares.

However, if their is one thing that I think people don't realize, it's that unbelievers can still, if they know it, spread the gospel (this scenario however has an extremely low chance of happening). They'll, of course, add their leaven in alongside it. Steven Anderson, for e.g., preaches two gospels at once. The true one and a false one. Thus, his preaching, though it's spaced out (video here, video there), won't be without contradiction concerning the gospel itself.

[Ellie]

I see what the complication is, and it's directly linked to the gospel itself, because if I don't acknowledge what you believe what a conversion should look like, then I'm more than likely not going to be welcome here. Frankly speaking, you must think that I believe in a false gospel, here let me see if I can clear things up, and mind you I still believe what David said about repentance on a few of his articles, of course not the one that was shared here.

Yes. The complication is that you believe that changing your mind gets you saved. That's a false gospel--it doesn't line up with the Bible and therefore, it is not true.

Everyone must understand that they're sinners, guilty before God and are very sinful (so much so that they cannot deliver themselves - they may even realize that they needed to be sinless from the womb), and that they're in need of a Savior, even Jesus Christ *(repentance).* It's a religious term which means "to change one's mind/attitude"; it's the act of going from unbelief to belief (trust);

You said repentance is "the act of going from unbelief to belief." But repentance and faith are both required for salvation. If we go based on your definition, then repentance and faith are the same thing. Let's test that definition out and hopefully you will understand. In this scripture Jesus preaches repentance and faith:

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. - Mark 1:14

So, let's test your definition by replacing the word "repent" with your definition.

The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: Go from unbelief to belief, and believe the gospel

Doesn't make any sense, does it? Well, that is because that's not what repentance is. It is grief and godly sorrow of one's wrongdoing. In God's word, this is what humbling yourself before Him truly looks like, not what you described in your testimony:

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. - James 4:8-10

Repentance is something that God gives, as this scripture shows:

In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; - 2 Timothy 2:25

In the book of Job, Job justified himself rather than justifying God. God rebuked him, and this is what Job said near the end of the book:

I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes. -Job 42:5-6

Do you take this to mean : I abhor myself, and "I change my mind from unbelief to belief" in dust and ashes?

There's no way to make sense of this false definition when you actually read the scriptures. Job heard what God said to him and he was ashamed; he hated himself and he was grieved over what he had said/done. What you're saying is not true, and the scriptures make that abundantly clear. If you are unwilling to even try to understand this and reason it out, then I'm not sure what else we can do for you.

[Unemployed2310]

I see what the complication is, and it's directly linked to the gospel itself, because if I don't acknowledge what you believe what a conversion should look like, then I'm more than likely not going to be welcome here. Frankly speaking, you must think that I believe in a false gospel, here let me see if I can clear things up, and mind you I still believe what David said about repentance on a few of his articles, of course not the one that was shared here.

Yes. The complication is that you believe that changing your mind gets you saved. That's a false gospel--it doesn't line up with the Bible and therefore, it is not true.

Everyone must understand that they're sinners, guilty before God and are very sinful (so much so that they cannot deliver themselves - they may even realize that they needed to be sinless from the womb), and that they're in need of a Savior, even Jesus Christ *(repentance).* It's a religious term which means "to change one's mind/attitude"; it's the act of going from unbelief to belief (trust);

You said repentance is "the act of going from unbelief to belief." But repentance and faith are both required for salvation. If we go based on your definition, then repentance and faith are the same thing. Let's test that definition out and hopefully you will understand. In this scripture Jesus preaches repentance and faith:

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. - Mark 1:14

So, let's test your definition by replacing the word "repent" with your definition.

The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: Go from unbelief to belief, and believe the gospel

Doesn't make any sense, does it? Well, that is because that's not what repentance is. It is grief and godly sorrow of one's wrongdoing. In God's word, this is what humbling yourself before Him truly looks like, not what you described in your testimony:

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. - James 4:8-10

Repentance is something that God gives, as this scripture shows:

In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; - 2 Timothy 2:25

In the book of Job, Job justified himself rather than justifying God. God rebuked him, and this is what Job said near the end of the book:

I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes. -Job 42:5-6

Do you take this to mean : I abhor myself, and "I change my mind from unbelief to belief" in dust and ashes?

There's no way to make sense of this false definition when you actually read the scriptures. Job heard what God said to him and he was ashamed; he hated himself and he was grieved over what he had said/done. What you're saying is not true, and the scriptures make that abundantly clear. If you are unwilling to even try to understand this and reason it out, then I'm not sure what else we can do for you.

Yes, repentance can have other meanings, it's about where to find the "change of mind" part of repentance in scripture. It's possible that we shouldn't do a fill in the blank of the meaning of the other definition of repentance, as that could lead to confusion, we could say that we're looking at another part of repentance that we should only be understanding the meaning of, instead of trying to fill in a blank. Just like how one wouldn't treat the word "faith" in the scripture that says "faith towards our lord Jesus Christ". That could be the case here. A biblical change of mind is indeed necessary.

[Unemployed2310]

Sorry, I don't know how to talk to you as I would to a father Christopher. Right now, I also don't believe I have the words right now to convince you to change your mind or give you reproof. I know now that this probably would've been the crucial moment to do that. My apologize.

[Ellie]

Yes, repentance can have other meanings, it's about where to find the "change of mind" part of repentance in scripture. It's possible that we shouldn't do a fill in the blank of the meaning of the other definition of repentance, as that could lead to confusion, we could say that we're looking at another part of repentance that we should only be understanding the meaning of, instead of trying to fill in a blank. Just like how one wouldn't treat the word "faith" in the scripture that says "faith towards our lord Jesus Christ". That could be the case here. A biblical change of mind is indeed necessary.

The reason why it leads to confusion (or doesn't make sense) is because your definition simply does not work. If your definition was true, then it would make sense. It's not a complicated subject, but because you never had a broken heart or contrite spirit for your sin, you are continuing to believe in a lie that allows you to justify yourself.

There is a portion of the repentance teaching that goes over the subject of changing one's mind. You are confusing the concept of "conversion" with repentance, just like the false teachers Chris mentioned in the article, so that's why I bring it up. It doesn't seem like you are interested in learning about it though, but it's there if you are curious to hear about it. I know that Chris did a better job explaining it thoroughly and clearly than I would so if you really want to learn about it then go ahead and read it. Here's a brief quote from that part of the article:

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
-Acts 3:19

The reason most of these men teach that 'repent' only means to "to turn/change" is because they have turned from some sins, just as the Pharisees did, and they have changed some of their philosphy (i.e. way of thinking), but they have never had grief and godly sorrow. Therefore, when someone like me teaches the grief and godly sorrow of repentance unto salvation, I will be attacked and condemned by them because they know if what I'm saying is true, they never received the grace of God; nor did many of their so-called "converts" to their church buildings.

[Unemployed2310]

The reason most of these men teach that 'repent' only means to "to turn/change" is because they have turned from some sins, just as the Pharisees did, and they have changed some of their philosphy (i.e. way of thinking), but they have never had grief and godly sorrow. Therefore, when someone like me teaches the grief and godly sorrow of repentance unto salvation, I will be attacked and condemned by them because they know if what I'm saying is true, they never received the grace of God; nor did many of their so-called "converts" to their church buildings.

I never said that noone should come to God with a contrite spirit, I just don't agree that all repentance means is godly sorrow.

It's clear that you guys don't accept the change of mind one, so why's that?

[creationliberty]

It's clear that you guys don't accept the change of mind one, so why's that?
Scripture has already been quoted to you and you just ignored it. (Doesn't sound like Christians that I know.) I don't know how else to say this because three people have already told you, but here it is a little more clearly:

READ. THE. TEACHING.

Or listen to them if you want, here's the links:

Why Millions of Believers on Jesus Are Going to Hell (book): http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/whymillions.php
Why Millions of Believers on Jesus Are Going to Hell (audio): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzhfoDnPtHE&list=PLbY08k2vP8_mVrhcGWXWpoM0nwj-rm5WO
Is Repentance Part of Salvation (article): https://www.creationliberty.com/articles/repent.php
Is Repentance Part of Salvation (audio): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEI_H3QUb7Q&list=PLbY08k2vP8_nXQtC1izDN_p7lutKuX9OI&index=3

I've made that as easy as I can for you. If you don't want to agree with us about these matters, then you have different definition of the Gospel of Jesus Christ than we do, and since your arguments are not founded in Scripture (i.e. you're just repeating what you were told), that means you need to learn about the matter first, then you can come back and argue your point.

[Unemployed2310]

I'm way too sleep deprived to really have the patience for that (I really don't want to ignore it), especially if it's more than 20 min to read or listen to; and I'm not a very fast reader. I'll try to look at those things later just because you said so, though I'm not going to be around after that. In nothing have I tried to be rude, I just wanted the answers for your faith here and now, in the chat.

See? I'm probably not even good enough to be here. I guess I should've waited a little longer so that I could become good enough to even change a teachers mind. And that's not really happening anywhere in all the world; I hope you guys have discerned the reason for why that is (it's a little deeper than the reason I just gave).

Anyway, I really don't want to waste anymore of your time if I've become a bother. As you can see, the title of this post. I won't be here for long. But I thought a little chat wouldn't hurt.

[Ellie]

I guess I should've waited a little longer so that I could become good enough to even change a teachers mind.

Troy, what do you mean change someone's mind? Is that why you're here? You haven't given any examples, explanations, or proof to support your arguments. You have not even given us any scripture at all to support your claim. Why do you think you are going to change anyone's mind when you aren't even putting in any effort to do so? We aren't going to just take your word for it, we need proof. And specifically, scriptural proof. Otherwise, we aren't going to be convinced.

And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. - Acts 17:10-11

Unlike what you've done, Chris put so much time and effort into those teachings that explain repentance and salvation, both audio and article/book that would answer your questions very precisely. That's why multiple people have linked and recommended it to address these specific doctrines. Chris worked hard to produce those articles and the arguments are scriptural and thorough. If you really wanted to know the answer to your question then you would look into it.

[Unemployed2310]

Say, Christopher, I'm just curious, but, hypothetically speaking, would you change your mind and take down articles if I were somehow ever to convince you that what you believe was a lie? I'm curious as to what my chances of convincing you are.

You might be one of the future hopes of mankind.

[creationliberty]

Say, Christopher, I'm just curious, but, hypothetically speaking, would you change your mind and take down articles if I were somehow ever to convince you that what you believe was a lie? I'm curious as to what my chances of convincing you are.
See? For you, it's not about learning the truth of doctrine in Scripture, but rather, it's about convincing others to adjust themselves to suit your personal feelings. So it puzzles me why you're here. It sounds like you just want us to accept what you believe so you feel comforted, instead of you coming here to acknowledge the truth of Christ.
He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.
-Pro 28:26

I'll try to look at those things
I don't know how someone "tries" to look into something. You either do it, or you don't. If you don't want to look at that stuff, that's fine. You don't have to. (Just don't give us the excuse that you don't have time, because you seem to have time to write lengthy posts.) But don't expect us to automatically agree that you've been born again in Jesus Christ because, based on your testimony, I don't see it. And as for you coming to this forum, it is strange for a man to seek fellowship with those who do not believe as he believes.

However, that being said, I have taken down articles I've written before because they were wrong. I've re-written articles because they had errors. That is all documented and proven by many eye witnesses. What we DO NOT have eye witnesses or evidence of is YOU being corrected, because as soon as we started correcting you with Scripture, you started pushing back.
Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.
-Pro 15:10

Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
-John 8:31

I've put in the work to study God's Word, now you're going to have to show us that, sometime over the past decade, you have at least made some attempt to do the same. If you read over (or listen to) that material, feel free to come back and make an argument against it, and we'll have a discussion about it.
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
-2Ti 2:15

Have a great evening.

[Unemployed2310]

Commenting just to say that you got a lot of these wrong in your last reply, Christopher (such as saying that I have the time or patience to write lengthy posts, no, I just copied & pasted those). You guys don't really know me, but I thought I gave enough about myself. Yikes. Quite the demanding man. Anyway, yeah bye.

[Jeanne]

Okay, Troy, I just have to ask; if you don't believe the same thing we believe about repentance and salvation, then WHY ARE YOU HERE? If your goal is to try to make us see 'the error of our ways' or to change what WE believe according to the Bible, then you're wasting your time and you would be better served going somewhere else.

Edit: I didn't read his last post before replying here, so it looks like he's gone already. What a relief!