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461

Wild Emails @ CLE / Deliverance Ministries Are Not of God

« on: June 25, 2021, 12:10:22 PM »

For those of you who don't have the context for this, I would recommend reading the following thread:
http://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=1392.msg11910#msg11910
This woman joined our forum on June 20, 2021, and then after she was banned, proceeded to write me the following emails:
MAY 24, 2021
MCKENNA FROM UTAH
(FOUR WEEKS BEFORE JOINING THE FORUM):
Do you know of or have an opinion on Deliverance Ministry
No.
JUNE 23, 2021
Just wanted to msg you and see why you have accused me?
Also wanted to know why I am banned?
Why do you think it isn't a big deal to prognosticate my "Great offense"
Oh, I see. I did not remember this email (from May 24th) because the person who wrote it (i.e. you) said nothing of themselves, and gave no details of what they were talking about, and so quick, vague questions get quick, vague responses. And furthermore, I got no response, which showed me that you had no intention to have a conversation, which confused me as to why you even bothered to write to me in the first place. Now that I see that it is you, and that you were asking about "Deliverance Ministry" all the puzzle pieces are fitting together. The phrase "deliverance ministry," as far as I understand it, is referring to the core concept of demonology, which is NOT biblical in any sense. (i.e. It is pagan mythology.) Furthermore, I decided to do a little bit of research on you after you just sent me this email, and you spend all your social media time involving yourself in political issues, not Biblical issues, which is a direct reflection on where you spend your time and study, and therefore, it is no wonder that you have no understanding on how to use or interpret Scripture, and our church and forum members could see something was wrong with what you were saying very quickly, even without that information, just by your communication alone.

That's because of what Jesus said:
But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
-Mat 15:18

Now I can see why you are hung up on the pagan "deliverance" garbage, and why you frequently use certain phrases like "prognosticate" and "speaking a spirit of doubt." Those are the things that the demonology religious cult has taught you, not what Scripture teaches. They convinced you of a false gospel, and you accepted it as "truth." However, because you have given all of us no indication you want to hear (i.e. understand) anything concerning that, then there is nothing more that I can do to help you.

Of course, on the way out, you spat back that I was not "delivered" (whatever that is supposed to mean), and so if I am not "delivered," why are you coming here to complain about being banned by an "undelivered" person? If you are of Jesus Christ, then why would that matter? Why don't you just let it go and walk away in peace?
First off,
Deliverance is the casting out of devils and the healing of the sick. This was 2/3 of Christ ministry as accounted for by Luke in the Book of acts. It isn't pagan deliverance, it is deliverance in Christ's name.
Secondly, I "spat" saying you need deliverance. You had made some pretty horrible accusations. While I was trying to understand what you were getting at, I remained hopeful and ready to receive your feedback. And I did receive your next reply, and it was really junked up with accusations.
I said you need deliverance because I really identified with Job, in Job 19
1Then Job answered and said,

2How long will ye vex my soul, and break me in pieces with words?

And Proverbs 4:23 says Guard your heart with all diligence.

If you peeked at my social media, you probably saw front and center Mark 16:17 "In my name they shall cast out devils"

I made myself quite vulnerable by sharing my story with you all. I'm also not in a demonology cult... I'm also not a pagan. I am a Christian. I have renounced Paganism. Truthfully, with the way you have communicated with me has made me suspicious of curses that may be over you. You seem quite vexed yourself, as evident in your replies and your accusations. You seem quite angry...  What do you do, Christopher? Have you ever felt anger or sadness? Have you ever felt a black cloud over you? Do you acknowledge there is an existence of devils and witches? Just wondering.

I did give an indication I wanted to hear, when I gave you feedback. I told you I was feeling hopeful. What I didn't say was feeling hopeful.... That I would learn what you're saying. I am really wondering why you see to dislike what I said about perceptions...

Again, you are saying I am back here to "Complain". Where did you decide I was complaining? I just wanted 3 answers, and didn't expect a reply.

That is kind of a theme I see with you. You decide. You have decided. You decided who I am and what I am. And what my beliefs are. You decided what kind of person I am and You decided how I would feel about what you had to say. You decided.

 I keep trying to ask you to stop deciding these things. To at least stop deciding them for me. You decided deliverance was pagan deliverance garbage. You decided I was in a demonology cult. You decided I don't want to hear you. You decided on the probability of "great offense" (Yet I'm still pressing in...) You decided my vocabulary was disingenuous. You decided I study on social media. You decided to visit my social media.

So I asked 3 questions, to which I did not really get direct answers to any of them. But from what I've gathered, you think I cannot interpret scripture? Just wondering

Also, When I emailed you initially, your answer was good enough. I didn't know you wanted a full on introduction and backstory. I didn't know you wanted me to reply either. You said no, and that was satisfactory. I wasn't aware you expected an entire conversation on the topic of deliverance. I may have pursued that route, but a simple "No" effectively answered my questions. I didn't know you were even open to any sort of conversation on email. Sorry!
Deliverance is the casting out of devils and the healing of the sick.
And that's all I needed to know from you. You jumped right out of the pagan frying pan and into the pagan fire. You have rejected the Gospel of Jesus Christ for pagan mythology, and you obviously don't want to hear anything about it from me. So, I hope you depart in peace, and have a great day.

What do you do, Christopher? Have you ever felt anger or sadness? Have you ever felt a black cloud over you? Do you acknowledge there is an existence of devils and witches? Just wondering.
I know, that's the problem. You are focused on your feelings and emotions; that is the foundation for your faith. Whereas the Word of God is the foundation of my faith, and that of our church. The difference is the willingness to reason out the truth, not blindly feel out what you want to believe.
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
-Isa 1:18
And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?
-Luke 6:39
There is no place in Scripture that says your personal feelings are the foundation for deciding spiritual matters, but you don't want to hear otherwise. Therefore, I hope you depart in peace, and have a great day.

Do you acknowledge there is an existence of devils and witches? Just wondering. 
Well, I have an entire website where I write about such topics. It's called creationliberty.com, and there is a search bar at the top right where you can find all sorts of information. I hope you depart in peace, and have a great day.

That is kind of a theme I see with you. You decide. You have decided. You decided who I am and what I am. And what my beliefs are. You decided what kind of person I am and You decided how I would feel about what you had to say. You decided. I keep trying to ask you to stop deciding these things. To at least stop deciding them for me. You decided deliverance was pagan deliverance garbage. You decided I was in a demonology cult. You decided I don't want to hear you. You decided on the probability of "great offense" (Yet I'm still pressing in...) You decided my vocabulary was disingenuous. You decided I study on social media. You decided to visit my social media.
I know McKenna; you hate having someone judge righteous judgment concerning the things you say and do. The Pharisees hated it when Jesus "decided" things about them as well. You wanted us to "decide" according to the appearance of yourself that you were painting with your words on the forum, which is why you were speaking in that awkward sanctimonious tone. But we saw through your false appearance and rebuked you. You hated that. That's because you hate righteous judgment and correction.
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
-John 7:24
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
-1Co 2:15
Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.
-Pro 15:10
And you have no Biblical argument against it. The evidence is clear to see by what you write. That's why you are constantly ministering questions, rather than Biblical understanding.
Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
-1Ti 1:4
That's why you're so vague, and cherry-pick out pieces of a verse of Scripture, like you did with Mark 16:17, having no understanding of the context of that chapter. That's what you were taught to do by the deliverance cult because there is no Biblical argument for what they teach. That's why you avoid the Word of God when talking with us, and you don't want to hear it. Therefore, I hope you depart in peace, and have a great day.

So I asked 3 questions, to which I did not really get direct answers to any of them. But from what I've gathered, you think I cannot interpret scripture? Just wondering
Jesus Christ did not answer every question he was asked either.
This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
-John 8:6
That's because the Bible tells us not to answer the fool according to their own folly, otherwise, they will think themselves to be wise in their own imagined arrogance; being willingly ignorant that they have no repentance in their hearts.
Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
-Pro 26:5
So I prefer to answer the core foundation of a problem, but that's not what you want to hear. So, I hope you depart in peace, and have a great day.

When I emailed you initially, your answer was good enough.
Of course it was enough for you, and that's because you only wanted an opinion. You didn't care about the facts. So, I hope you depart in peace, and have a great day.

I wasn't aware you expected an entire conversation on the topic of deliverance.
You wrote an email to someone because you did NOT want to have a conversation? Okay. I hope you depart in peace, and have a great day.
Christopher,
I know you THINK I have jumped into the pagan fire. That's your perception. It doesn't match reality. Maybe no one has told you before, but your perception does not decide reality.
I didn't ask for an opinion from you. I asked if you had ever heard of deliverance ministry. You said no. You weren't giving me an opinionated No, you were giving me a factual no. And there you go again, deciding that I do not care about the facts.
And interesting you bring up a scripture about a fool. A fool cares more about his opinion than he does about coming to an understanding.
You love your opinion so much that you make your opinion reality! And anyone who deviates from the reality you enforce is a "pagan". You love your own opinion so much, you hate what I tried to tell you about perceptions. To you, there is only one perception. Your perception. That's what I'm getting from you, because your arguments are based on your opinions, not any facts.

I wrote an email asking two questions, and the two questions fulfilled their design when you said no. You really seem malcontented with whatever I say. Whatever the situation may be, for you, what I say isn't enough. It's too much. It's too vague. It's all decided by you.

None of this is effective communication. You're accusatory.

Oops, you decided what I think! When you said "I know that's the problem. You think..."
Christopher, you do not decide what I think. You also decided that I focus on feelings and emotions. You cannot decide what I focus on. You can have your opinions but you cannot say they are reality. Isn't that what a fool does?

"And you won't hear anything from me about it" There you go deciding again. Please stop deciding what I will hear! This isn't appropriate for a conversation or a debate. This isn't an appropriate thing to do. This is a childish thing to do. This shows me you do not know how to communicate. You cannot decide the things that are not for you to decide. You do not have a say, you do not have authority. You continue not to hear ME on this, and it makes me think you have been very manipulative.

Also, you were so enthused to continue to decide my reality that you still failed to directly answer the question! Do you ever engage in any spiritual warfare?

You cannot decide another's reality. You know, Jesus could perceive the thoughts of others. Jesus also healed the sick and cast out devils. In one argument, you can say "Jesus Decided" and in another, you call deliverance "pagan "deliverance" garbage". Aren't you blaspheming against the miracles of Christ who cast out devils and healed the sick?

If you think my tone is awkward, that is your opinion. If you think I was making a show of myself, that's your opinion. Your opinion does not magically become reality. I did reveal quite a bit about myself but to reveal my full story and include every iota of Grace from the providence of God would be quite a novella, and frankly, I don't have a penchant for writing long drawn out explanations or letters.

And there you go again, deciding "I have no understanding of scriptures". Your opinion on this is not reality. You seem very used to having opinions be accepted as reality. I tried to accept the feedback you had offered, but the way you were offering it was inappropriate. There is a way to perform feedback to ensure it is effective. If you had known how to give feedback properly, not with insults and invalidating statements, I may have learned quite a bit about what you have to say.

I see that you have compared yourself to Jesus, and me to Pharisees, again. When the Pharisees asked Jesus questions, he did not answer. Are you crucified with Jesus or is Jesus crucified with you? One distinguishable difference between the line of questions Jesus received and the questions I asked you is: I was not asking you questions to draw you out, to deceive you. I wasn't asking so I could sabotage you. I was asking those questions so I could have answers to those questions. Not to corner you. You already know that When I ask a question, A simple answer will do. Instead you have painted yourself like Jesus whose word in that moment was the difference between life and death of the woman.

Again, you have compared a Born-Again Christian to a Pharisee.

Well, I can't stop you from deciding everything. I still don't have an issue with much of your material. But I do have an issue with how you have been to me. I know I can't change your pattern of deciding.

Do not assume your perceptions are reality. God's perception is reality. You are playing God when you say your perceptions are reality. You are playing God when you decide what a person is thinking, focusing on, and feeling.
I was hoping I could find some answers to questions I had in my heart, but to enter into the Kingdom of Christopher Johnson, one must walk on eggshells.

Again, your material doesn't seem off, but your heart does.

I hope you cease communication with me in peace.
I hope you depart in peace, and have a great day.
END OF DISCUSSION
I have not yet read the last letter she sent me; I only copy and pasted it into this forum for you guys to read if you wanted. I knew that anything else she said was going to be a waste of my time. The only part I read was the last line she wrote in the letter, which was "I hope you cease communication with me in peace." Obviously, if you read the entire exchange, you can see that she wrote that out of spite. She was contacting me, not the other way around. She joined our forum, we didn't go join hers. She insisted on continuing to argue and debate; I was simply telling her that she should depart in peace because we are not like-minded in Christ. Thus, she said that last line with the intent to prop herself up, so she could seem like she was the one being pursued or persecuted; that was just to make herself feel better about herself, since her entire focus was on the emptions of her heart, rather than wanting to discuss the facts of Scripture.

He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.
-Pro 28:26

Just to clarify for all readers, anything coming out of the "deliverance" cults is very dangerous. It's pagan demonology that has nothing to do with Scripture. I do not yoke together with them in any sense, and neither does the rest of our church. I hope you all will take precautions with such people, and that McKenna would be an example for you all to see the corrupt fruit of the deliverance false doctrines.

462

Introduce Yourself / Re: New Member

« on: June 23, 2021, 12:25:36 AM »

Before I go to bed, I wanted to share this. McKenna is now emailing me. Big surprise, right? This almost always happens with people we have to block on this forum. It turns out, that I had one previous email from her, which went as follows:
Do you know of or have an opinion on Deliverance Ministry
No.
That's it. When people write me vague questions with no other details, I give vague answers with no other details.

So, we can confirm that she was a part of the "Deliverance Ministries." Now, I do not cover them on my website yet. I don't have any information to look up about them in my ministry, and that's because I did not grow up around those types of people. However, just for information's sake, for all of you, deliverance so-called "ministries" are rooted in demonology, which is NOT biblical in any sense. Essentially, it's pagan mythology, and they think they are casting out demons, when they're not.

In addition, they tend to have the philosophy that their conversion is based on a demon being cast out of them, which is also rooted in the concepted that the devil in them was at fault for all the wrong they did, and once that devil is out of them, they are now God's children. They never come to repentance of their sin, and that's why McKenna believed that her "turning from sin" and "changing of mind" was the core of her salvation because, it was not really her fault, it was the devil in her.

If you go back and re-read everything she wrote, all the puzzle pieces should start fitting together.

I cannot recommend this pastor because I do not know what basic things he teaches, however, this is a roughly 10-min video of him talking about this subject, and as I listened to it, as far as I know (hopefully, I didn't miss anything), I agreed with everything he said, and I have taught some of the very things he was talking about on the issue of what the Bible does and does not say about casting out devils:


I hope that helps some of you make sense of this, and also helps some of you understand why we ask for someone's testimony of Christ when they claim to be a Christian and enter this forum. We want to preach the gospel of salvation to those (like McKenna) who have not heard it, and also keep out those who would end up causing a lot of trouble on this forum if they stayed.

463

Evangelism / Re: People who are receptive to Repentance

« on: June 22, 2021, 06:51:35 PM »

Just because someone is ignorant of a particular doctrine, does not mean they are not saved, but when they stop exhibiting that heart of repentance, then we know something is wrong. I don't understand what specifically you are asking.

464

Introduce Yourself / Re: New Member

« on: June 22, 2021, 06:48:24 PM »

1Then Job answered and said,
2How long will ye vex my soul,
And break me in pieces with words?
Job 19

Get delivered, stop vexing others Christopher

Hmm. I thought you said:
That is your perception. You're entitled to it, it's your right. And I will never say your perception is wrong. Because it's yours. I will never be able to see through your perception perfectly.
Well, it looks like that was a lie.

If you cannot depart in peace, I will show you the door. I still hope you have a great day and that your family is blessed with all their needs throughout the coming months of change in our country.

465

Introduce Yourself / Re: New Member

« on: June 22, 2021, 04:11:28 PM »

I hope you depart in peace. Have a great day.

466

Introduce Yourself / Re: New Member

« on: June 22, 2021, 12:12:04 PM »

First of all, this "speaking a spirit of doubt over me" thing is a very Charismatic sort of expression. Although I have never been directly involved in Pentecostalism myself (and certainly won't be doing so now!), it has still had some influence in my life. My mother is what I would term semi-Charismatic (meaning that she's not involved in a Charismatic church, and doesn't believe in it wholesale, but still holds to some clearly Charismatic beliefs and practices). She had several Pentecostal friends. Also, I used to listen a lot to Radio Rhema a number of years ago, and that station is full of Pentecostal/Charismatic preachers. I am therefore reasonably familiar with the lingo. So when I see a phrase like that, I can tell its origin. But that aside, I would like to know where in the Bible it talks of anybody "speaking a spirit" of anything over anyone else? What does that even mean, exactly? To me, it sounds more like something out of witchcraft. A lot of stuff that goes on in Charismatic churches is actually witchcraft with a few Biblical phrases tossed in to make it sound Christian. Or if it's not out-and-out witchcraft, it's certainly pagan. "Slaying in the Spirit", for instance, is just an imitation of certain practices that go on in Hinduism. It's the exact same thing, but the Charismatics put a few different labels on it to make it sound Christian.

Rowan, you made a really good point there, and I noticed that too. I saw the problems with her phrasing, but I didn't mention it to her because I did not want to distract from the doctrines of repentance and faith because that's what she needs to hear. However, I didn't know about it being Pentecostal/Charismatic specifically. I knew it matched the type of spiritism that is found in paganism, but you're right, she could be a part of the Charismatic cults, and we just don't have enough information to know.

For anyone else reading this who may not understand, I cover a bit about them in these teachings:
Speaking in Tongues vs Charismatic Gibberish
Revivalism: The Devil's Design

467

Introduce Yourself / Re: New Member

« on: June 22, 2021, 12:04:25 PM »

Your response is even more concerning. First of all, you need to stop trying to speak with us in a sanctimonious tone. All that does is raise everyone's suspicions about you trying to act in a manner apart from how you normally do (i.e. as a call to impress) because I guarantee you don't talk this way to people in a normal, face-to-face conversation. Let's just be simple with one another. If you cannot manage that, then I don't have any interest in continuing conversation with you because I care about what you believe, not what kind of outward appearance you are trying get me to accept.

I gained faith in Jesus Christ through my hard journey. I identified my sins and felt Godly Sorrow. My Godly sorrow resulted in conviction. My conviction resulted in repentance. My repentance lead to turning away from my sin.
Okay, that confirms for me that you have accept a FALSE gospel. There was no correction in your statement, meaning that you did not come to understanding that you did not previously have, and that's because you tried a bit of verbal sleight-of-hand. You defined repentance as the following:
"Repentance is a change of mind, that leads to a change of heart, that leads to a change in actions. This change involves turning from sins and turning to God."
You said 'repentance' means "a change of mind," with the inclusion of "turning from sin." Now, you are trying to snow everyone to say that you had "godly sorrow" that RESULTED in repentance; not that repentance itself IS godly sorrow, but that godly sorrow came AFTER you changed your mind and turned from sin. Again, that is WORKS-BASED DOCTRINE. That is NOT the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and I'm willing to go into the Scriptures on that. (i.e. You will notice how I provided Scripture for you, and you provided nothing but your opinion.)

I hear you again, when you prognosticate that "I will not hear you on this matter"
Here is what I said:
I don't think, at this time, you are going to hear me on the matter,

Actually, my minister might have something to say about all this  "You will likely take great offense" "I don't think you're going to hear me"....
In case other people don't understand the words she's using, she's saying that I'm predicting the future. McKenna, you need to knock this off now because you're starting to get to the point of false accusations, and I'm not going to put up with it. My having a thought, which is based on the evidence of your own writing, is not predicting the future. I simply have a believe that you will not hear me, and that does NOT mean that you will not read what I wrote, but rather, I mean in the sense that Jesus used it, meaning that you will read/hear, but not understand.

So far, I am correct. You are reading what I am writing, but you are not hearing.

Truthfully I  don't have an appreciation for this.
That's why I said: "I know you will likely take great offense to that" You are first trying to say that I was wrong for making those predictions, and now are admitting that I was correct.

You have made it pretty clear that you doubted I would even make it to the end of your letter to me.
When did I say that?

Unfortunately you see me as "listing off my good deeds" When I'm really just trying to make a place here for myself on the forum.
The way to do that is by giving a testimony of Jesus Christ that is according to His Word. You haven't done that yet.

This information has been requested from me, almost specifically. And if I am sharing with you that I make no place for most music and most entertainment of today.... And you see that as me "listing off my good deeds...." Here is an update:
No one asked you if you listen to music or watch TV. We asked you for your testimony of repentance and remission of sins, and so far, you haven't provided it. You are providing a works-based doctrine, and then trying to craftily cover it up.
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
-Luke 24:47
That's why we primarily focus on that matter.

I was sharing because I was under the impression that we had a common denominator: How wonderful God's grace is in our life.
God is graceful to all, but He only saves those with a contrite spirit.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18
In this thread, I see a woman who is trying to act like she's contrite, but it's an act. We have people here who have a contrite spirit, and their speech is a lot different from yours.

I love Luke. I love the book of Acts, too. Written by Luke. So while the pharisee did list off his deeds, he was never asked to account for them, or pray right then. I was asked to be less vague... Now I am being compared to a Pharisee.
Where were you asked to be less vague? Maybe I missed that. I asked just for your understanding of the doctrine of repentance, and you demonstrated that you did not understand it, and then tried to deceive everyone when you were called out on it. (i.e. Trying to change definitions and/or reword it in a more subtle way, hoping that no one would catch on to what you were doing.) That is exactly a Pharisaical attitude; that's exactly the way they acted when confronted by Jesus Christ. The more you talk, the more you're confirming that for me.

Finally, I hear you when you say I do not have a testimony of my salvation In Jesus Christ. That is your perception. You're entitled to it, it's your right. And I will never say your perception is wrong. Because it's yours.
Just you saying that is also confirming for me that you are not following Jesus Christ. You are following a false "jesus" that someone taught you, but it's not the Christian God of the Bible. If what I were saying and teaching is a lie (which, if what you are saying about repentance is true, then my teaching would have to be a lie), then it's not just "my perception," but rather, what I said would be wrong; it would be error. And you are now saying that you would not declare something that is wrong to be wrong, or in other words, you're not going to tell the truth; you are just going to try to get along and yoke together with something that is not true.

You may not see it yet, but we have a drastic disagreement about what is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That is the FOUNDATION of all faith. You seem more determined to be in fellowship with a group, than to be in fellowship on the basis of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That is also very concerning, and demonstrates that you do not care what the Bible actually teaches on this matter.

To call an "error" a "perception" is just flat-out deceptive. McKenna, I want to be straight-forward with you; you are not going to find like-minded brethren here. I don't know who it is you are following, or what you are learning, but it's not the Gospel of Jesus Christ, so you should take your sanctimonious attitude somewhere else.

I will never be able to see through your perception perfectly. The funny thing about perceptions is that singularly, they never match reality. Even a group of perceptions, together, can be mismatched from reality.
We look to the Word of God for reality and perception. So I'm sorry you have wasted your time, but you will not find brethren here. If you ever want to learn the truth of God's Word and follow Jesus Christ instead of following your "minister," then by all means, come back and have a talk with us.

Until then, there is nothing more I can do to help because you don't want to hear (i.e. you don't want to understand). Have a great day.

468

Introduce Yourself / Re: New Member

« on: June 21, 2021, 06:53:28 PM »

Repentance is a change of mind, that leads to a change of heart, that leads to a change in actions. This change involves turning from sins and turning to God.

Okay, so that actually clears up a lot for me, and why I'm getting a works-based false gospel from you. I know you will likely take great offense to that, but that is NOT what the Bible describes repentance to be. I wrote an article on that topic that can help with that:
Is Repentance Part of Salvation?

After I said my first prayer of asking God, to save me, a sinner....

That is precisely why I wrote this (short, free-to-read) book:
Why Millions of Believers on Jesus Are Going to Hell
Essentially, you believe that you "changed your mind/turned from sin" to be saved, adding in a "sinner's prayer" as a cherry on top. That is NOT the gospel that Jesus Christ taught. Whatever you have come to believe, you have been lied to. There is whole lot more deception behind the false teaching of "turning from sin to be saved" than I think you would be willing to hear from me at this point, but just briefly, let me quote what Jesus said at the Sermon on the Mount:

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
-Matthew 7:21-23
Please notice that the people who called Jesus "Lord" (just as you do) all claimed that they did all these things in His name. And yet, He turns them away unto everlasting fire. The question is: Why?

I hope you will take some time to look into those teachings. You have no obligation to do so, but I want to make it clear that I do not yet accept you as a sister in Christ because you have not come to repentance for the remission of sins, and you don't understand what it means. There are millions and millions of people who claim to be Christ, who claim they have turned away from all sorts of sins, and in the end, they will end up in hell. I hope you will take the time to investigate this because it is vitally important.

I changed my mind on being a Lesbian. I changed my heart by ending the lesbian marriage I was in. I changed by giving the SPECIFIC reason (to my ex-companion) of a change of heart and mind, saying I was convicted of the things I had done. Things that would embarrass you if I told you. I turned away from the sin of homosexuality by disengaging in any inordinate relationship with women. I turned away from the PRIDE community. And I did not hide this turning away, some "friends" were very displeased.
My appetite for the word and truthful teachings from anointed teachers, not false ones, increased. A lot.
I looked back at my past self with a perspective I NEVER thought I would have. When I first came out to my family and friends, I was viciously persistent on gay "rights" and victim-minded. I shaved my head and dressed atrociously. I got tattoos, I shaved my head, I started doing drugs, and drinking, engaging in palm readings, tarot cards. I went to Yule, a pagan celebration and considered it "The best thing I had ever experienced". And in my previous mind I never accounted for changing my mind on ANY OF THIS. I believed I was justified and right. I believed witchcraft was the truth and freeing. I believed in feminist ideas and believed I would never change my mind.

I'm glad you turned away from all those things. However, that is NOT a requirement for saving grace, and as far as I can tell by your own words and testimony, you have rejected the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Again, I hope you will look into those teachings to understand what Jesus actually taught.

This lifestyle brought me to a place where I was gathering my straw from the stubble, figuratively. I had reached a hell on earth, I knew I was a child of hell, I knew I was hell-bound and I reached for the last thing I ever thought I would reach for. The Bible. I opened it, and read it. That marks the beginning of my walk. Since then, I have been delivered from my afflictions, curses, and posessions. Deliverance from my affliction is only a permanent thing as I continue to honor God and his Word.

But you have not understood the Gospel of Jesus Christ yet. I'm just basing that on what you're telling me.

I hate sin, I hated the self-deception in my heart. I have an entire willingness to be saved in God's way, and I am very stringent in who I trust, who teaches me, who I listen to, and who I let into my home. I am stringent about what I say, what music I listen to, and where my things come from. I do not leave the door open for the devil to walk back into my life.

And I've heard Catholics say the same things. I've heard Jehovah's Witnesses say the same things. I've heard Seventh-day Adventists and Mormons say the same things. And yet, none of them are of Christ because they rejected the plain doctrine of salvation.

I have faith and know Jesus, knowing he died on the cross, was buried in the grave, and rose from our sins. I have faith and know that Jesus will not leave me high and dry. I have faith and know that the good in my life is directly from God's providence. I have faith and know that if I were to go back to a wicked lifestyle the end result will be the exact same as it was the first time.
Believing in Jesus and enjoying the blessings promised is a NO BRAINER compared to where I was before I accepted Jesus.

And yet, as I quoted earlier from Jesus's own words, He will turn away such people. I hope you will take time to learn why because it is a very serious matter.

I have REAL love for people, and I consider a portion of that Real Love to be when I say the truth on a matter (i.e. 501 c 3) I think a big portion of this real love is a new-found HONESTY with others. A love for JUSTICE, which is the root of wisdom. A Love for Christ that is growing by the second, and a love for His blessings and gifts to me.

I see so many statements you are making that you likely learned from worldly teachers that do not understand Scripture, and there are so many of them, I don't know where to begin. I don't think, at this time, you are going to hear me on the matter, but just to demonstrate one point, the Bible (which are the words of the Living God) does not say that "a love for justice" is the root of wisdom.
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
-Pro 9:10

For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
-Isa 66:2

I seek to be HUMBLE and SANCTIFIED, asking in prayer and being crucified with Christ.

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
-Rom 3:10-12

I have Godly fear. I am dissatisfied with the things of the world. In one word I would describe myself as "Disenchanted"
I have the spirit of Prayer. I do not get out of my bed in the morning without praying to God, asking repentance, asking for him to clear a path that no evil plan or trap befall me. I thank him for safely guarding me in peaceful comfortable rest. And I thank him before my meals. I pray A LOT and I'm only just getting started. I will be praying more, and more, and more.
I am separate from the world. And the world is angry and amazed at this! That I do not watch movies, or listen to mainstream music, that I will not allow this into my life or home.
I am CHASTENED for sin. I listen to my minister and I align myself, I can handle a rebuke and chastening. I do not make excuses for myself and do what I must to remain un-deceived.. From Myself!

I'm sorry to say, these words remind me an awful lot of the attitude of the Pharisee vs the publican; perhaps not in direct accusations, but in spirit, it's there, where one professes himself to be humbled and dedicated to God, while arrogantly listing off all his "good" deeds to supposedly "prove" himself:
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
-Luke 18:9-14
Again, if you look into the links I provided above, you will find a lot more details on that subject.

Have a lovely day, I'm off to work soon

I hope you have a peaceful day at work, but concerning your posts; I have not seen a testimony of salvation in Jesus Christ. I'm saying these things for your sake, that you might come to know who Jesus really is.

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What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p7

« on: June 21, 2021, 04:04:19 PM »

470

Introduce Yourself / Re: New Member

« on: June 21, 2021, 12:21:08 AM »

I hear you. I really did not nuance much of my story. But please be reassured that I do repent. Dreams of the good life do not supersede repentance, I repent of what I do wrong. I do not go through this life self deceived.

I have been vigilantly asked if I have repented. I can give a resounding "Yes". I affirm I have repented, I do repent, and I will repent. I also repent for my possible unwitting mistakes and ignorances. I will continue to repent for things I have done unwittingly or ignorantly.

I was converted from a Homo-Pagan lifestyle to Christianity because from my experiences, the Homo-Pagan lifestyle leads to destruction. My life had brought me to the dead end of destruction. God could not hold back the destruction from falling onto me. I was unrepentant, sinful, and wicked.

I want you to feel relieved that I do know how to distinguish the difference between deliverance and salvation, the casting out of devils and repenting of sins.

McKenna, I keep seeing a pattern in your speech, and I want to address that. I get the impression of your passion for what you believe, but I need to clear something up: Could you define the word 'repentance' for me?

Every time you spoke of the "evidence for your salvation," you went to sin that you have turned from, and that was very concerning to me in this context. I hate to break it to you, but going from being a lesbian to straight relationships is not a requirement for saving grace. I still think you are being vague, and I would very much appreciate your time if you would explain to me your understanding of repentance. I think that would clear up a lot for everyone. Thanks so much for taking the time to help me understand your position.

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Bible Discussion / Re: Analysis of Brian Moonan's Repentance Teaaching

« on: June 21, 2021, 12:10:40 AM »

I'm not sure I remember anymore.

472

Introduce Yourself / Re: New Member

« on: June 20, 2021, 11:54:39 AM »

I have been delivered from drinking, smoking, drugs, the occult, the Mormon cult, homosexuality, paganism, feminism, new age..... And radical leftism. Oh, I was also delivered from delusions, devils, generational curses..

It's great to hear that you have come out of all that, but there are many people out there who have come out of the occult who are not saved. There are many people who have stopped smoking and drinking, but are not saved. There are many people who have come out of feminism and leftism, but they are not saved.

I'm a 26 Year old female, when I started on my journey with Christ, I was ready for the end.

Are you saying that you ARE 26, or that you WERE 26 at that time? But that part about "when I started my journey with Christ," would you share some more details about that?

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Introduce Yourself / Re: New Member

« on: June 19, 2021, 11:52:42 PM »

That's an interesting story. God was really looking out for you that whole time. I'm sure you'll have a lot of interesting things to talk about, considering how much doctrine you have heard and analyzed, and seen the truth in God's Word.

474

Introduce Yourself / Re: Kia Ora from New Zealand (Part One)

« on: June 17, 2021, 02:34:13 PM »

Well, the response you just gave was more well rounded, and even from just the short conversation between you and I in this post, I can see evidence of a heart of godly sorrow, in which you are grieved that you have grieved God. That's who we, as a church, are. I am also grieved that I have grieved God by my own sin, so we, as the church, are the born again elect of God, saved by the blood of Christ, who gave us a repentant heart.

And that is the difference between those who profess Christ who go to hell, and those who profess Christ who go on to eternal life in heaven. That's why I wrote this book:
Why Millions of Believers on Jesus Are Going to Hell

I didn't write that because I wanted to make churchgoers angry. I wrote that for people just like you, so they could understand the fullness of Christ's Gospel and have confidence in His salvation. God gives men repentance for the remission of sins, and a lot of people would have already lashed out against us for what we have said to you so far because they never got that repentance, but you did not lash out at us because you were given that humility of repentance.
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
-Heb 6:1

The knowledge, wisdom, and understanding will come with time, study, and prayer.
For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
-Heb 5:13-14

A major reason I want to come here is for fellowship. I don't have a church, and there are no sound churches in my area.

I got that impression. That's why I wanted to address you on those points, just specifically on the Scripture to make sure we're on the same page, and again, that was me speaking from a position of only knowing what you said in your responses since I have not read your original post yet.

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What's New @ CLE / Re: (VIDEO) CLE U.S. Current Events Update | 6-10-21

« on: June 17, 2021, 11:45:53 AM »

When I spoke of false flags within the Q movement, Q warned about this. Be careful who you follow.

476

Introduce Yourself / Re: Kia Ora from New Zealand (Part One)

« on: June 17, 2021, 10:34:38 AM »

Apologies for two consecutive posts, but I have just realised that I can't edit my own posts on here (unless there is something I've missed?).

Correct; you only have a 30 minute window to edit your post before it locks. This is to prevent people from altering posts for deceptive reasons, of which we have had many such people blocked from doing so.

477

Introduce Yourself / Re: Kia Ora from New Zealand (Part One)

« on: June 17, 2021, 10:32:05 AM »

In writing what I did, I was more wanting to reprove my own past works of darkness by exposing them and bringing them to light. This isn't something I've talked about very often (because of shame and so on). But there was a bit of the vehement desire, zeal and revenge mentioned in 2 Corinthians 7:11.

I have not read your introduction post, or rather, posts, but I wanted to make a few comments. First of all, in the "New Members Click Here" section, I provided examples of good introduction posts, and they were not structured like what you gave. Secondly, to that point, if you are having to go beyond the character limit for a post, and you are not writing an entire teaching or having a debate with someone, that should raise some concerns in your own mind.

I wanted to address the Scriptures you are using because it sounds like you either don't fully understand them, or you are just casually using them to imply a Scriptural reason for writing a long post. That is not what those verses are for.

The first part is from John 3:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
-John 3:16-18

So in the context of this verse, Jesus Christ is being set center stage as the foundation of salvation, preaching that the keeping of the law of God is not how a man is justified, and many Jews hated that because they perceived themselves to be righteous by keeping the law.

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
-John 3:19-21

The light that is come into the world is Jesus Christ, and men loved darkness, which is not just concerning sin, but also the ordinances of the Jews, the religious traditions of men. They love those things, and do evil in the darkness because it covers up their evil ways of living, and therefore, they will not come to hear Christ preach the truth to them, nor will they hear His disciples preach the truth to them, because they do not want to be rebuked and corrected. Those who are the children of God gladly come to hear the truth of Christ preached because, once Christ has given them grace and they are forgiven, they know they can live more openly because they do not live in their sin -- not that they have no sin, or do not sin, but live no longer therein, and hate those things.

These verses do not say anything along the lines of coming forward publicly and telling every specific dirty thing you have ever done. Why would you need to do that if the Lord Jesus Christ has forgiven you and cleansed you with His blood? Why would you need to treat us as if we are some sort of Catholic priest you have to confess to? You should go to God with those specific details, not to us, and if you already have, then why are you coming to us to give specific confessions about what God has already handled within you?

If we confess our sins [i.e. TO HIM], he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
-1Jo 1:9

The second Scriptures you referred to are here:

For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
-2Co 7:11

Sometimes, I think there are people who, when coming to this forum, think they have to prove something. Please do not misunderstand; their testimony provides evidence to us of their salvation in Jesus Christ, but what I mean is that they are TRYING to prove something, rather than simply writing out their testimony of salvation in Jesus Christ, which is a simple matter. Those who have been born again in Christ don't have to prove anything because the evidence of their conversion will come forth naturally.

Vehemence in this context is more along the lines of a passionate desire to do good works, and to help out anyone in need, especially when it comes to the furtherance of the Gospel of Christ. I'll explain more once I do the commentary notes on these chapters (which is coming soon), but the zeal being spoken of is not demonstrated by listing out every specific detail of every sin you have committed (because even Catholics do that in a confession box), but zeal in Christ is demonstrated by motivation and discipline with the church and for doctrines of Christ, and the supporting of the ministers in the church, in helping them to combat against the false doctrines of false preachers, so that some can be saved.

The clearing of yourselves section; we have to remember that Paul was essentially addressing incest and fornication. Therefore, clearing of themselves would be to openly rebuke those things, and for those who would not repent of their wrongdoing, to remove them from fellowship and communion together with the church, so there would be sanctification, and therefore, would show themselves cleared on that matter, that they would not be spiritually yoking together with those who still live in darkness and would not repent of their sin.

This is why it is so important to understand the verses, and not just use them in a casual or uncaring manner; like to say "this reminded me of these verses." The reason I address that is because, for other people reading this forum, who are not a part of it, may take away misunderstandings from what you are saying. You have to remember that hundreds of other people read this forum, so we need to have that "carefulness" Paul talked about in 2nd Corinthians when say things here -- this is not just some casual social media platform; this is a community of Christians, and we are setting an example.

The passionate desire and zeal is not a bad thing when concerning the things of Jesus Christ, but unrestrained passions without proper wisdom and understanding is just foolishness. Now, because I have not read this very lengthy post, I do not want to be to harsh with you on this matter, because as far as I know, you could have gotten saved last week, and for someone who is new in Christ, I don't want to be too overbearing, since wisdom and understanding come by the grace of God with time. I understand that you have your own purposes for why you wanted to come here and talk with us, but in a face-to-face encounter, when meeting some new people for the first time, you would not have verbally said all the things you just wrote, and therefore, if you would not have done it in normal conversation, why do you believe that you need to act unnaturally when you come to this forum?

I don't know about other people, but I simply write the way that I talk. Maybe you can just try that instead because there is no call to impress here. I hope that's helpful.

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What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p6

« on: June 14, 2021, 12:43:40 PM »

479

Wild Emails @ CLE / Re: Believing in a Flat Earth is the New Repentance

« on: June 12, 2021, 06:31:12 PM »

And yes, I had to block his email address because he would not stop spamming my inbox. How could I possibly have known that?

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Wild Emails @ CLE / Believing in a Flat Earth is the New Repentance

« on: June 12, 2021, 04:26:26 PM »

Before reading this interaction, it would be good for you to get a context of what happened on this forum before these letters were written. You can read that thread here: http://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=1386.msg11828#msg11828
JEFF FROM TEXAS:
I have a question. I enjoyed the article on the Greek scam. And how these false teachers in these churches operate. I been knowing for many years that they are decievers. I would not go to any Church in this world to be honest. They are all corrupted or Apostate. The Church is very few. Millions are literally being decieved.
My question is to the Author of that article. The Greek Scam. I am curious to your point of view of the Earth and what the Bible says and what NASA says. Now let me clarify that NASA is part of this world and they have a serpent tongue logo. And many beleive them and their obvious CGI fakery. The Bible says the earth is stable and cannot be moved. It's also says God separated the waters above and below the firmament. So that would indicate water is above us. We have a solid firmament above us as the Bible says. We are being decieved on purpose and I really want to know where you stand on that. Are you with most of the decieved world or are you awake to the Spinning water ball scam?
I have a question. I enjoyed the article on the Greek scam. And how these false teachers in these churches operate. I been knowing for many years that they are decievers. I would not go to any Church in this world to be honest. They are all corrupted or Apostate. The Church is very few. Millions are literally being decieved.
I just saw your letter this afternoon. It did not appear to me until today for some reason. Just so we are clear, your childish tantrum on our forum yesterday led most of us (if not all of us) to believe that you are not part of that few.
Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
-1Co 14:20
I just want to make sure you understand that before I continue to respond to your inquiry. You have not provided me any evidence in your conversation so far that you are of Christ, and that is because you have indicated that you believe in a false, works-based doctrine, and you seem to be a product of "conspiracy ministries" (which are not really ministries of Christ), rather than prioritizing understanding of God's Word. If that is not the case, then you will have to show me something else besides what you have said and done so far.

My question is to the Author of that article. The Greek Scam.
That's me.

I am curious to your point of view of the Earth and what the Bible says and what NASA says.
As my mother used to say, "What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China?" Or in other words, you read a teaching exposing the fraud of the "Original Greek," and then move onto NASA conspiracies; two topics that have absolutely nothing to do with each other. If you cannot see the problem with that, I am not sure that I can help you with that; you may have to find someone else to help you.

Now let me clarify that NASA is part of this world and they have a serpent tongue logo. And many beleive them and their obvious CGI fakery. The Bible says the earth is stable and cannot be moved.
I know Jeff. I know what the "conspiracy ministries" teach. I know they teach you that the earth is stable and cannot move because they say that Psalm 93 says "the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved," and I know they took that completely out of its context for its meaning, and I know they completely ignore the verses that don't fit their narrative, such as:
The LORD reigneth; let the people tremble: he sitteth between the cherubims; let the earth be moved.
-Psa 99:1
And I know they don't want to hear the actual interpretation of those verses for understanding even though I would be happy to explain it to them if they would just ask, and I know they would just rather rail on and attack me personally because they hate correction, just like you did on our forum.
Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.
-Pro 15:10
EVERY PERSON I have met over the past decade who believes like you do has acted EXACTLY the way you did on our forum. Rage. Hatred. Contention. I know Jeff. This is nothing new.
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
-Gal 5:19-21

No one in our church or forum community thinks that NASA is good, and we know they are scamming people, but one day, if God brings you to the humility of repentance, and then He gives you a good understanding to learn the truth of His Word, come back and reason together with us.
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
-Isa 1:18

But for men who think they really "seek the truth," they have not been humbled to the godly sorrow of their wrongdoing, to know that no man really seeks after God, and that God has to come to them and give them understanding. You had no interest to know whether or not we teach the truth of Christ's Gospel, but rather, you wanted to know if we teach the truth about NASA... that speaks volumes about what you really hold as the foundation of your faith, and all I can say is that you and I do not worship the same God:
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.
-Rom 3:10-18

It's also says God separated the waters above and below the firmament. So that would indicate water is above us. We have a solid firmament above us as the Bible says.
The Bible also says the world was covered with water in a flood. I guess nothing has changed since then, and we're all drowning and don't even realize it. (i.e. You hold the philosophy of uniformitarianism, which is an evolutionary worldview, but that's something I don't think you want to hear about right now.) That was a bit of sarcasm, but it was to demonstrate the point that things change, especially when it comes to the pre-flood world.
The Pre-Flood World

We are being decieved on purpose and I really want to know where you stand on that. Are you with most of the decieved world or are you awake to the Spinning water ball scam?
I stand with the Lord Jesus Christ. That's why I have a ministry to preach the truth of Christ, not to appease your personal whims. Have a great day.
Thanks for you reponse...  you guys love to throw scripture around and don't even use it correctly. Its does matter what we live on and we have been lied to....this world is filled with with nothing but lies and the ball earth deception has brought many to Jesus. Including myself.  Again you people ignore actual scriptures. You seem to only use scripture that benefits you...all scripture is truth and should be treated as such.  You people are the rudest crew I have every witnessed. Yall continually put people down and accuse them of doing it. You are a very arrogant group of radicals. Claim  you love Jesus and show no fruits. Very weird..
I have no idea what you mean when you say I believe  in a  works based doctrine.  Here are a few scriptures on repentence and works together.

Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Acts 26:19-20 KJV
Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and bring forth works worthy of repentence.

You are so involved in that one word repentance. I beleive that repentence is Godly sorrow. But it also means To change your mind. You cant pick and choose scripture for you and your self proclaimed teachings. You think you are wise but actually have no wisdom at all.  If you are going to teach Gods word. Stop picking and choosing scriptures that benefit your agenda.

Faith without works is dead. There must be fruits/works if you are saved. We are still under the moral law. Although all ordinances were nailed to the cross.

We will still sin that's obvious. But to willfully continue to sin and say you Love Jesus Christ is a lie from satan.  To continue to watch sports, movies, the news and listen to the trashy music and hang with Ungodly people there is no way you are saved. You accuse people of not being saved when yall are so arrogant.. a prideful crew of people. Self righteous.  I have nothing agianst you guys but you are the ones not showing fruits of repentence.
this world is filled with with nothing but lies and the ball earth deception has brought many to Jesus. Including myself.
Oooh! Okay. That was the missing piece of the puzzle. Now I understand why you did not want to give your testimony of salvation, because you knew it would not match Scripture and the way the BIBLE says men are saved. I'll get to that in a moment, but I want to read the rest of your letter first.

Again you people ignore actual scriptures.
That's an interesting argument because I was giving you plenty of them to support everything I was telling you. However, once again, here we have a flat earth culter (and yes, it is a religious cult; even if it were true, it would still be a religious cult) who will not ASK what the interpretation of those Scriptures are, and that is because they do not care. (i.e. That is the general attitude of those who are in religious cults -- just blindly follow the party line, and ignore everything else.)

You seem to only use scripture that benefits you
You don't seem to quote any verses (i.e. you never once gave chapter and verse of Scripture on the forum, nor in your first letter to me, which tends to indicate someone who either doesn't know it or is lazy), so I would rather talk to someone (i.e. that claims to be a Christ) who quotes the Word of God than someone who quotes nothing. Tell me, who was it on the forum that said "faith without works is dead?"
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
-James 2:18
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
-2Ti 2:15
So the very verse you were paraphrasing (instead of quoting), is the very verse I am now using. Therefore, if I am guilty of what you accused me of, then you are guilty of it too. So it is not that I use Scripture that "benefits [me]," but rather, I am using Scripture FOR YOUR SAKE. Now, if you do not want to hear the Word of God quoted to you because it is correcting your philosophy (i.e. way of thinking) and correcting your behavior, all you have to do is just say so and be straight-forward with me, but if that is the case, then that actually makes sense because, as I told you before, people who have forsaken the ways of God hate correction and reproof:
Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.
-Pro 15:10
So, your statement sounds like projection. (i.e. You jump to accuse others of what you are guilty of doing.) Let's continue to read your letter, and see if you only use Scripture that "benefits you."

all scripture is truth and should be treated as such
That contradicts what you just said. Why are you not acknowledging the Scriptures I'm giving you as truth, and treating them as such? Why are you treating God's Word as if it is just for "my benefit?"
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
-2Ti 3:16

You people are the rudest crew I have every witnessed.
Again, that's projection (i.e. accusing others of what you are guilty of doing), or in other words, what the Bible calls "hypocrisy."
rude: rough, uneven, rugged, of coarse manners, unpolished, violent, fierce, harsh
(See 'rude', American Dictionary of the English Language, Noah Webster, 1828, retrieved June 12, 2021, [webstersdictionary1828.com])
A young lady, in response to your original post, gently asked you a few questions about yourself, and your first response to her said:
"Where is your love friend? You seem to lack it."
That is the very definition of rude, especially in your hypocritical use of the word 'friend'. Perhaps I should define hypocrite, since you are using the word 'rude' without understanding its meaning, I should not assume you understand what a hypocrite is either:
hypocrite: one who feigns to be what he is not; one who assumes a false appearance
(See 'hypocrite', American Dictionary of the English Language, Noah Webster, 1828, retrieved June 12, 2021, [webstersdictionary1828.com])
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
-Mat 7:5
You hypocritically use the username "jesusistheway," when the truth is that your username should be "flatearthistheway." That would be much more open and honest. I'll get to that in a moment, but I want to address your letter one step at a time.

Yall continually put people down and accuse them of doing it.
You mean like how we're continually told we are "the rudest crew" you have ever witnessed, and then you accuse us of putting you down? That's called projection. That's what you're doing, and you are doing it without ANY concern for the judgments of God, without any fear of His oversight:
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
-Mat 12:36

You are a very arrogant group of radicals.
More projection. When you're done "continually put[ting] people down," let's get to your Scriptural arguments.

Claim  you love Jesus and show no fruits. Very weird
Yeah, it's very weird when someone does that. It's weird when a man, who takes no thought to what he says, writes things down quickly without consideration or proof reading, continually puts down those who take time to write out Scripture, explain it, put in links, color coding and others such things to make it easier to read and understand, along with someone like me, who has hundreds of free articles, free books, and hundreds of hours of free audio teachings over the past 12 years of ministry, are accused of "show[ing] no fruits." Hmm. It kinda sounds like projection.
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
-James 2:18
If I am wrong, please, show me your ministry. Give me links so I can take a look at your fruit so you can show me a better example. I would like to take a look. I'll wait to hear back from you on that.

I have no idea what you mean when you say I believe  in a  works based doctrine.
That was already explained to you by two people on our forum who quoted your own words back to you. Without confidence that you are reading what is being said, I will explain it to you again.

In Scripture, repentance is part of salvation (i.e. obviously, alongside believing in the Lord Jesus Christ). If you do not understand those verses, I'll leave a link to a teaching where you can find it:
Is Repentance Part of Salvation?
That's why Jesus taught us to go out to the world and teach repentance and remission of sins:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
-Luke 24:47
According to Biblical definitions, repentance means "grief and godly sorrow of one's wrongdoing" and remission means "forgiveness." What's amazing about the King James Bible is that it has a built-in dictionary for most of the words that it uses, and God defined repentance at the very beginning back in Genesis:
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
-Gen 6:6
God defined repentance as "grief," which is the general definition of the word. Remember, you said:
"all scripture is truth and should be treated as such"
And later, you will say:
"You cant pick and choose scripture for you and your self proclaimed teachings."
So, let me show you another word in Scripture to cross reference what I just showed you:
contrite: broken-hearted for sin; deeply affected with grief and sorrow for having offended God
(See 'contrite', American Dictionary of the English Language, Noah Webster, 1828, retrieved June 12, 2021, [webstersdictionary1828.com])
So who does God save? Who does he draw close to? The Bible tells us:
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18
Did the Bible say that God draws nigh (i.e. close) to those who believe in a flat earth and saveth such as expose NASA? No, it did not. That is your personal "test of faith," but that is not the test of faith according to the Lord God. Those who are not humbled to repentance (i.e. godly sorrow for sins) are not saved.
But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
-James 4:6
Because we (who are on our forum and in our church) know these things, that is why we are very cautious of you because it was clear that, when you joined the forum, you had no intention or understanding to preach repentance and remission of sins (which is why you did not want to share your testimony with us), but rather, you are teaching flat-earth for the remission of sins, which is not what Christ taught us. A repeat-after-me "sinner's prayer" does not save a single soul.

So to address your statement (because those who do not want understanding have no interest in asking a question), you said:
"repentence has many definitions and uses. It can mean sorrow, but more so means to turn from you sin"
Therefore, you believe that the primary definition of repentance means "to turn from you[r] sin." So because repentance is part of salvation, you then believe you have to "turn from your sin" to be saved, and that is works doctrine. I hope the third explanation helps you understand this more clearly, however, since you switched your definition on the forum after you were called out on this contradiction, that provides me some evidence to suggest that you do understand what we said, but instead of confessing that you did not understand the matter, you are trying to deceive and lie to save face.

What is fascinating to me is that you were so interested in my article, "The 'Original Greek' Scam," but the problem is that it is the "Original Greek" people who are pushing the false narrative that 'repent' means "to turn from sin." That is not what the Bible teaches us. I would explain more to you on that matter, but I address most of that in the repentance article I linked above, which you are welcome to read and then get back with me to critique it if you would like.

Here are a few scriptures on repentence and works together.
Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
You forgot the reference at the end; it's Luke 3:8. Now, READ IT SLOWLY. This is not a keyword search game. You said it was Scripture about "repentance and works together," but it says, "bring forth fruits WORTHY OF repentance," meaning that those who have a foundation laid in them of godly sorrow for their sins, should bring forth fruits (i.e. works) that are reflective of that heart of humility. It does not say "bring forth works worthy of works" nor does it say "bring forth turning from sin worthy of turning from sin." That is just redundancy.

Acts 26:19-20 KJV
Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and bring forth works worthy of repentence.
Again, slow down and read it carefully. I know you have the capability to type in the word "repentance" into a keyword bible search engine (i.e. I can do that too), but we need to study it to understand it. It says that "they should repent (i.e. have godly sorrow of their wrongdoing in humility) AND turn to God." I would highly suggest reading the repentance teaching I linked above for you because I explain all of these Scriptures in there. If you believe that repentance means to turn from sin and turn to God, that means you believe this verse says "that they should turn from sin and turn to God and turn to God, and bring forth works (i.e. turning from sin and turning to God) worthy of turning from sin and turning to God." That is just redundant nonsense, and I will not accuse God of teaching us redundant nonsense. What this is teaching is that men should have godly sorrow for their sins, and turn to God, and then once they have done that, they should do works that are worthy of that humble, repentant heart.

You are so involved in that one word repentance.
Indeed I am, because it is important to me. God gave me repentance, and that is how I was saved.
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
-2Ti 2:25
That is how all born again Christians are saved. Those who go through another method are NOT saved because they profess to be saved through another method that Jesus Christ did not give to us. So those who think they turn from their sin to be saved believe in a false works-based doctrine, and they are not saved.
For example, you said:
ball earth deception has brought many to Jesus. Including myself
Unless those people came to repentance for the remission of sins, they are not saved. So my foundation is repentance and faith in Christ for my salvation, but your foundation is flat-earth and faith in Christ. Our discernment for who is saved or not is based on who has come to repentance and faith in Christ, while your discerning factor is who believes in flat earth. Therefore, because your position has no basis in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, we have to conclude that you are not saved, and that you are preaching a false gospel because you have built a house upon the sand.
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
-Mat 7:26-27

I beleive that repentence is Godly sorrow. But it also means To change your mind.
Now you are switching definitions again. Did you make a mistake? Did you lie to us? Did you not know anything about it until you did some keyword searching online after we addressed you on the matter? You have told us you believe 'repent' means "to turn from sin," then we pointed out your works doctrine, so you changed your tune and said you believe it was godly sorrow, but now you're trying to change it again to say it is a change of mind. Again, it is false doctrine which you have received from those who have no understanding of God's Word. I address all that in the teaching on repentance I linked above, and again, "turn from sin" and "change of mind" comes from the Greek grammar dictionaries, not from the King James Bible.
Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
-2Co 7:9-10
The opposite of the humility of repentance is pride. That is why I quoted James 4:6 to you earlier, and now I will quote it again along with more verses that follow it because it fascinating what you will find:
But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
-James 4:6-10

You cant pick and choose scripture for you and your self proclaimed teachings.
Neither can you, but as anyone can see, you ignored the Scriptures I gave you in my first letter (and on the forum) and you scorned at them instead, but as you can see, I addressed the Scriptures you gave to me. So who's the hypocrite here?
The heart of the righteous studieth to answer: but the mouth of the wicked poureth out evil things.
-Pro 15:28
A scorner loveth not one that reproveth him: neither will he go unto the wise.
-Pro 15:12

You think you are wise but actually have no wisdom at all.
I'll leave that to God to decide. That's why I rely on His words, and not my own words, whereas you rely on your own words and not on His words. That's why I spend so much time quoting Scripture, and why you seem to despise the fact that I do that.
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
-1Co 2:13
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
-1Co 1:17

If you are going to teach Gods word. Stop picking and choosing scriptures that benefit your agenda.
You know what really made you angry about my first email response to you? This verse:
The LORD reigneth; let the people tremble: he sitteth between the cherubims; let the earth be moved.
-Psa 99:1
The flat earth community forgot to tell you about that one, didn't they? When you're ready to "stop picking and choosing Scriptures that benefit your agenda," let me know, and we can have a chat. Have a great day.
You guys sure enjoy writing down what we said and then attacking it with scriptures that have nothing to do with what we are talking about.  I dont have time to sit and write down a bunch scripture and use it falsely agianst others because you are self righteousness. I never said we should not have Godly sorrow. Matter of fact thats what we should have in order to be saved.  And to Recognize we are sinners agianst a Holy God.. But repent also has other meanings..and used for that purpose in the Bible. Do you really think God changed his mind when he repented.  Absolutely not! He grieved/ repented because he had created us.
Do you watch TV Christopher? Do you watch Sports? Do you listen to worldly music?  Or any music for that matter including main stream Christian? Are you on facebook Christopher?  If you think Social media evil.  It's all trash of this world. Every bit of it. Jesus said you cannot love the world and serve him. You cannot serve both. You have not said anything about giving up this world Christopher. You are good at throwing scripture around. But that's about it.
JESUS said many will be turned away by him because he never knew them. Do you think you are the only one that can interpret scripture?  I refuse  to sit here and right down every scritpture like some arrogant troll. Speaking for myself. Not you. I know what Gods word says.
I dont even think you realize just how arrogant and prideful you are Christopher and yes I will call you by your name. You used a definition on me of exaclty how you are, you and your  band of prideful, self righteous, arrogant, egotistical band of hateful people...

It's funny how you call me an evolutionist when you believe the evolution lie of what the earth is...Dude do you not see the hypocrisy?  I cannot believe you used they few scriptures on me that have nothing to do with fake outer space. It's a freemason/luciferian evolutionary lie...start reading you Bible correctly.  You use the KJV and yet you called God the Creator liar. By saying I misinterpret scriptures about the earth. There are 100s of scripture on this earth buddy. It says we are on pillars Christopher. What does that mean?  I already presented to you what a Firmament is. Its solid structure..lol Is You are will never convince me by telling me you can interpret those scriptures for me... lol The earth is stable and their is solid firmament above us...you are in the programmed world. And call God a liar by saying his scripture does not say what it says. How in the world do expect an awake person to beleive anything you say. When you condradict your own words. You somehow think you have this inside scoop on repentence. But called God q liar on his Creation.  Give me a break dude....You sound like a freemason. Many of those in the apostate Church...matter of they have taken over the Churches all over world. ARE you a Mason Christopher? I may be wrong just asking. 

Acts 26:19-20 KJV
Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and bring forth works worthy of repentence.

So Christopher..you are lashing out at me and saying God is not Redundant or something like... This scripture is clearly saying that there must be works worthy of your repentence...  After you repent you must have works worthy of repentence...clear as day.
You can try all you want to make it say something else...lol  But it says what it says
Listen Jeff, I've got work to do. It took me two hours to write that letter to you because I wanted to be charitable and take the time with you. You are spending probably about two minutes writing a response; I don't have time to keep this up. You obviously don't want to hear any of this and you don't care, so I won't waste my time anymore. I will simply repeat what I said, since you ignored it:
You know what really made you angry about my first email response to you? This verse:
The LORD reigneth; let the people tremble: he sitteth between the cherubims; let the earth be moved.
-Psa 99:1
The flat earth community forgot to tell you about that one, didn't they? When you're ready to "stop picking and choosing Scriptures that benefit your agenda," let me know, and we can have a chat. Have a great day.
END OF DISCUSSION
Of course, he is now spamming my inbox, which means I will likely have to block him after I give him a warning. I already know his type; they won't stop. They can't because their pride will not allow them to.

So, in short, he got caught giving the wrong definition of repentance, and then changed it four times. He said it was godly sorrow, then said it was turning from sin, then said it was changing of mind, and is now back to godly sorrow. This means he has no idea what he's talking about, but is unwilling to admit his own lack of understanding, meaning that pride is controlling his tongue, and that means we are not brethren with him. He has given us ZERO evidence that has has a repentant heart.

Of course, he also realized that I caught him in the fact that he would not ask any questions, which was said in the context of seeking understanding of a matter. So, instead of doing that, he put question marks on the end of sentences to ask LOADED questions, which means they are questions not designed to be answer because they have a built-in conclusion.

Do you watch TV Christopher?
Do you watch Sports?
Do you listen to worldly music?
Or any music for that matter including main stream Christian?
Are you on facebook Christopher?
Do you think you are the only one that can interpret scripture?

He did not want answers to these questions because all he had to do was go look some things up. You guys know I don't watch TV, I can't stand sports, I can't stand worldly music, and even have a book exposing the so-called "Christian" music industry (which is advertised on the front page of my website in clear view), and I got off of Facebook at the beginning of the year. He could have found this information easily if he did a little research on his own, but he did not want that information. He just wanted to believe these things about me so that way he had some reason to accuse me.

I refuse  to sit here and right down every scritpture like some arrogant troll. Speaking for myself. Not you. I know what Gods word says.
See my point? He has no charity in his heart. What if I was unsaved? What if he understood the gospel of Christ and I did not? He will not even bother to explain it to me? This is standard operating procedure from those in the conspiracy cults because they don't really understand God's Word.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
-1Co 2:14

Because we asked him for his salvation testimony (which he still refuses to give), and because we rejected his gospel of "flat earth or you are lost" philosophy, he has called us prideful, self-righteous, arrogant, egotistical, and hateful. Notice that he never once quoted us and gave an example of how we were any of these things, like how we quoted him and proved the matter by his own words, but rather, he just says them. It's no different than a child who repeatedly says, "I know you are, but what am I?"

It's funny how you call me an evolutionist when you believe the evolution lie of what the earth is...
I never said he was an evolutionist. Read it carefully. I said he upholds a uniformitarian philosophy, which is the same as evolutionists uphold. Again, this is what I have experienced from EVERY flat earther I have run into.

He's so angry by that one verse I quoted to him in Psalm 99, and still, he won't ask me what it means. That's why I didn't explain to him anything about Psalm 93 or 99. All he had to do was ask me, but his unwillingness to do that simply demonstrates that he did not come here to learn anything.

Give me a break dude....You sound like a freemason. Many of those in the apostate Church...matter of they have taken over the Churches all over world. ARE you a Mason Christopher? I may be wrong just asking.
That was not a question. It was an accusation. He wants to believe it because, in his flat-earth cult, anyone who does not accept a flat earth is a freemason. He is completely unaware that I wrote a book exposing Freemasonry:
Freemasony: A Luciferian Beacon

I can't help someone like that, but I can document the conversation so you all can benefit from that discussion, and I hope that God gives Jeff as much mercy and longsuffering as He has given me.