Messages

461

Bible Discussion / Re: Canaanite wedding

« on: June 26, 2021, 02:19:22 AM »

I would point out that the price was paid for us. Jesus bought us. He did not buy our sin, otherwise, He would receive sin as a product for the cost. So until I see something in Scripture that contradicts it, I have to agree with Kenneth.

462

Bible Discussion / Re: Canaanite wedding

« on: June 25, 2021, 11:14:22 PM »

I think you make a very good point there which I may not have considered because we have to be careful how we say these things since so many cults teach false doctrines. For example, Joyce Meyer teaches that Jesus went to hell and had demon torture Him. The Bible never says that, and the idea is ridiculous. In short, I suppose saying that "Jesus paid for our sin," would mean that Jesus would have to be in hell for eternity, and that is nonsense.

463

Wild Emails @ CLE / Re: Deliverance Ministries Are Not of God

« on: June 25, 2021, 04:27:13 PM »

I hope she comes to a realization of the truth, departs from the dangerous doctrine she has been taught and accepts the gift of salvation that awaits if she humbles herself before the Lord.

Yeah, I'm hoping the same thing.

464

Introduce Yourself / Re: New Member

« on: June 25, 2021, 12:11:43 PM »

If anyone would like to see the resulting emails McKenna sent me after she was banned, you can read them here:
http://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=1402.msg12075#msg12075

465

Wild Emails @ CLE / Deliverance Ministries Are Not of God

« on: June 25, 2021, 12:10:22 PM »

For those of you who don't have the context for this, I would recommend reading the following thread:
http://www.creationliberty.com/forum/index.php?topic=1392.msg11910#msg11910
This woman joined our forum on June 20, 2021, and then after she was banned, proceeded to write me the following emails:
MAY 24, 2021
MCKENNA FROM UTAH
(FOUR WEEKS BEFORE JOINING THE FORUM):
Do you know of or have an opinion on Deliverance Ministry
No.
JUNE 23, 2021
Just wanted to msg you and see why you have accused me?
Also wanted to know why I am banned?
Why do you think it isn't a big deal to prognosticate my "Great offense"
Oh, I see. I did not remember this email (from May 24th) because the person who wrote it (i.e. you) said nothing of themselves, and gave no details of what they were talking about, and so quick, vague questions get quick, vague responses. And furthermore, I got no response, which showed me that you had no intention to have a conversation, which confused me as to why you even bothered to write to me in the first place. Now that I see that it is you, and that you were asking about "Deliverance Ministry" all the puzzle pieces are fitting together. The phrase "deliverance ministry," as far as I understand it, is referring to the core concept of demonology, which is NOT biblical in any sense. (i.e. It is pagan mythology.) Furthermore, I decided to do a little bit of research on you after you just sent me this email, and you spend all your social media time involving yourself in political issues, not Biblical issues, which is a direct reflection on where you spend your time and study, and therefore, it is no wonder that you have no understanding on how to use or interpret Scripture, and our church and forum members could see something was wrong with what you were saying very quickly, even without that information, just by your communication alone.

That's because of what Jesus said:
But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
-Mat 15:18

Now I can see why you are hung up on the pagan "deliverance" garbage, and why you frequently use certain phrases like "prognosticate" and "speaking a spirit of doubt." Those are the things that the demonology religious cult has taught you, not what Scripture teaches. They convinced you of a false gospel, and you accepted it as "truth." However, because you have given all of us no indication you want to hear (i.e. understand) anything concerning that, then there is nothing more that I can do to help you.

Of course, on the way out, you spat back that I was not "delivered" (whatever that is supposed to mean), and so if I am not "delivered," why are you coming here to complain about being banned by an "undelivered" person? If you are of Jesus Christ, then why would that matter? Why don't you just let it go and walk away in peace?
First off,
Deliverance is the casting out of devils and the healing of the sick. This was 2/3 of Christ ministry as accounted for by Luke in the Book of acts. It isn't pagan deliverance, it is deliverance in Christ's name.
Secondly, I "spat" saying you need deliverance. You had made some pretty horrible accusations. While I was trying to understand what you were getting at, I remained hopeful and ready to receive your feedback. And I did receive your next reply, and it was really junked up with accusations.
I said you need deliverance because I really identified with Job, in Job 19
1Then Job answered and said,

2How long will ye vex my soul, and break me in pieces with words?

And Proverbs 4:23 says Guard your heart with all diligence.

If you peeked at my social media, you probably saw front and center Mark 16:17 "In my name they shall cast out devils"

I made myself quite vulnerable by sharing my story with you all. I'm also not in a demonology cult... I'm also not a pagan. I am a Christian. I have renounced Paganism. Truthfully, with the way you have communicated with me has made me suspicious of curses that may be over you. You seem quite vexed yourself, as evident in your replies and your accusations. You seem quite angry...  What do you do, Christopher? Have you ever felt anger or sadness? Have you ever felt a black cloud over you? Do you acknowledge there is an existence of devils and witches? Just wondering.

I did give an indication I wanted to hear, when I gave you feedback. I told you I was feeling hopeful. What I didn't say was feeling hopeful.... That I would learn what you're saying. I am really wondering why you see to dislike what I said about perceptions...

Again, you are saying I am back here to "Complain". Where did you decide I was complaining? I just wanted 3 answers, and didn't expect a reply.

That is kind of a theme I see with you. You decide. You have decided. You decided who I am and what I am. And what my beliefs are. You decided what kind of person I am and You decided how I would feel about what you had to say. You decided.

 I keep trying to ask you to stop deciding these things. To at least stop deciding them for me. You decided deliverance was pagan deliverance garbage. You decided I was in a demonology cult. You decided I don't want to hear you. You decided on the probability of "great offense" (Yet I'm still pressing in...) You decided my vocabulary was disingenuous. You decided I study on social media. You decided to visit my social media.

So I asked 3 questions, to which I did not really get direct answers to any of them. But from what I've gathered, you think I cannot interpret scripture? Just wondering

Also, When I emailed you initially, your answer was good enough. I didn't know you wanted a full on introduction and backstory. I didn't know you wanted me to reply either. You said no, and that was satisfactory. I wasn't aware you expected an entire conversation on the topic of deliverance. I may have pursued that route, but a simple "No" effectively answered my questions. I didn't know you were even open to any sort of conversation on email. Sorry!
Deliverance is the casting out of devils and the healing of the sick.
And that's all I needed to know from you. You jumped right out of the pagan frying pan and into the pagan fire. You have rejected the Gospel of Jesus Christ for pagan mythology, and you obviously don't want to hear anything about it from me. So, I hope you depart in peace, and have a great day.

What do you do, Christopher? Have you ever felt anger or sadness? Have you ever felt a black cloud over you? Do you acknowledge there is an existence of devils and witches? Just wondering.
I know, that's the problem. You are focused on your feelings and emotions; that is the foundation for your faith. Whereas the Word of God is the foundation of my faith, and that of our church. The difference is the willingness to reason out the truth, not blindly feel out what you want to believe.
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
-Isa 1:18
And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?
-Luke 6:39
There is no place in Scripture that says your personal feelings are the foundation for deciding spiritual matters, but you don't want to hear otherwise. Therefore, I hope you depart in peace, and have a great day.

Do you acknowledge there is an existence of devils and witches? Just wondering. 
Well, I have an entire website where I write about such topics. It's called creationliberty.com, and there is a search bar at the top right where you can find all sorts of information. I hope you depart in peace, and have a great day.

That is kind of a theme I see with you. You decide. You have decided. You decided who I am and what I am. And what my beliefs are. You decided what kind of person I am and You decided how I would feel about what you had to say. You decided. I keep trying to ask you to stop deciding these things. To at least stop deciding them for me. You decided deliverance was pagan deliverance garbage. You decided I was in a demonology cult. You decided I don't want to hear you. You decided on the probability of "great offense" (Yet I'm still pressing in...) You decided my vocabulary was disingenuous. You decided I study on social media. You decided to visit my social media.
I know McKenna; you hate having someone judge righteous judgment concerning the things you say and do. The Pharisees hated it when Jesus "decided" things about them as well. You wanted us to "decide" according to the appearance of yourself that you were painting with your words on the forum, which is why you were speaking in that awkward sanctimonious tone. But we saw through your false appearance and rebuked you. You hated that. That's because you hate righteous judgment and correction.
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
-John 7:24
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
-1Co 2:15
Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.
-Pro 15:10
And you have no Biblical argument against it. The evidence is clear to see by what you write. That's why you are constantly ministering questions, rather than Biblical understanding.
Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
-1Ti 1:4
That's why you're so vague, and cherry-pick out pieces of a verse of Scripture, like you did with Mark 16:17, having no understanding of the context of that chapter. That's what you were taught to do by the deliverance cult because there is no Biblical argument for what they teach. That's why you avoid the Word of God when talking with us, and you don't want to hear it. Therefore, I hope you depart in peace, and have a great day.

So I asked 3 questions, to which I did not really get direct answers to any of them. But from what I've gathered, you think I cannot interpret scripture? Just wondering
Jesus Christ did not answer every question he was asked either.
This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
-John 8:6
That's because the Bible tells us not to answer the fool according to their own folly, otherwise, they will think themselves to be wise in their own imagined arrogance; being willingly ignorant that they have no repentance in their hearts.
Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
-Pro 26:5
So I prefer to answer the core foundation of a problem, but that's not what you want to hear. So, I hope you depart in peace, and have a great day.

When I emailed you initially, your answer was good enough.
Of course it was enough for you, and that's because you only wanted an opinion. You didn't care about the facts. So, I hope you depart in peace, and have a great day.

I wasn't aware you expected an entire conversation on the topic of deliverance.
You wrote an email to someone because you did NOT want to have a conversation? Okay. I hope you depart in peace, and have a great day.
Christopher,
I know you THINK I have jumped into the pagan fire. That's your perception. It doesn't match reality. Maybe no one has told you before, but your perception does not decide reality.
I didn't ask for an opinion from you. I asked if you had ever heard of deliverance ministry. You said no. You weren't giving me an opinionated No, you were giving me a factual no. And there you go again, deciding that I do not care about the facts.
And interesting you bring up a scripture about a fool. A fool cares more about his opinion than he does about coming to an understanding.
You love your opinion so much that you make your opinion reality! And anyone who deviates from the reality you enforce is a "pagan". You love your own opinion so much, you hate what I tried to tell you about perceptions. To you, there is only one perception. Your perception. That's what I'm getting from you, because your arguments are based on your opinions, not any facts.

I wrote an email asking two questions, and the two questions fulfilled their design when you said no. You really seem malcontented with whatever I say. Whatever the situation may be, for you, what I say isn't enough. It's too much. It's too vague. It's all decided by you.

None of this is effective communication. You're accusatory.

Oops, you decided what I think! When you said "I know that's the problem. You think..."
Christopher, you do not decide what I think. You also decided that I focus on feelings and emotions. You cannot decide what I focus on. You can have your opinions but you cannot say they are reality. Isn't that what a fool does?

"And you won't hear anything from me about it" There you go deciding again. Please stop deciding what I will hear! This isn't appropriate for a conversation or a debate. This isn't an appropriate thing to do. This is a childish thing to do. This shows me you do not know how to communicate. You cannot decide the things that are not for you to decide. You do not have a say, you do not have authority. You continue not to hear ME on this, and it makes me think you have been very manipulative.

Also, you were so enthused to continue to decide my reality that you still failed to directly answer the question! Do you ever engage in any spiritual warfare?

You cannot decide another's reality. You know, Jesus could perceive the thoughts of others. Jesus also healed the sick and cast out devils. In one argument, you can say "Jesus Decided" and in another, you call deliverance "pagan "deliverance" garbage". Aren't you blaspheming against the miracles of Christ who cast out devils and healed the sick?

If you think my tone is awkward, that is your opinion. If you think I was making a show of myself, that's your opinion. Your opinion does not magically become reality. I did reveal quite a bit about myself but to reveal my full story and include every iota of Grace from the providence of God would be quite a novella, and frankly, I don't have a penchant for writing long drawn out explanations or letters.

And there you go again, deciding "I have no understanding of scriptures". Your opinion on this is not reality. You seem very used to having opinions be accepted as reality. I tried to accept the feedback you had offered, but the way you were offering it was inappropriate. There is a way to perform feedback to ensure it is effective. If you had known how to give feedback properly, not with insults and invalidating statements, I may have learned quite a bit about what you have to say.

I see that you have compared yourself to Jesus, and me to Pharisees, again. When the Pharisees asked Jesus questions, he did not answer. Are you crucified with Jesus or is Jesus crucified with you? One distinguishable difference between the line of questions Jesus received and the questions I asked you is: I was not asking you questions to draw you out, to deceive you. I wasn't asking so I could sabotage you. I was asking those questions so I could have answers to those questions. Not to corner you. You already know that When I ask a question, A simple answer will do. Instead you have painted yourself like Jesus whose word in that moment was the difference between life and death of the woman.

Again, you have compared a Born-Again Christian to a Pharisee.

Well, I can't stop you from deciding everything. I still don't have an issue with much of your material. But I do have an issue with how you have been to me. I know I can't change your pattern of deciding.

Do not assume your perceptions are reality. God's perception is reality. You are playing God when you say your perceptions are reality. You are playing God when you decide what a person is thinking, focusing on, and feeling.
I was hoping I could find some answers to questions I had in my heart, but to enter into the Kingdom of Christopher Johnson, one must walk on eggshells.

Again, your material doesn't seem off, but your heart does.

I hope you cease communication with me in peace.
I hope you depart in peace, and have a great day.
END OF DISCUSSION
I have not yet read the last letter she sent me; I only copy and pasted it into this forum for you guys to read if you wanted. I knew that anything else she said was going to be a waste of my time. The only part I read was the last line she wrote in the letter, which was "I hope you cease communication with me in peace." Obviously, if you read the entire exchange, you can see that she wrote that out of spite. She was contacting me, not the other way around. She joined our forum, we didn't go join hers. She insisted on continuing to argue and debate; I was simply telling her that she should depart in peace because we are not like-minded in Christ. Thus, she said that last line with the intent to prop herself up, so she could seem like she was the one being pursued or persecuted; that was just to make herself feel better about herself, since her entire focus was on the emptions of her heart, rather than wanting to discuss the facts of Scripture.

He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.
-Pro 28:26

Just to clarify for all readers, anything coming out of the "deliverance" cults is very dangerous. It's pagan demonology that has nothing to do with Scripture. I do not yoke together with them in any sense, and neither does the rest of our church. I hope you all will take precautions with such people, and that McKenna would be an example for you all to see the corrupt fruit of the deliverance false doctrines.

466

Introduce Yourself / Re: New Member

« on: June 23, 2021, 12:25:36 AM »

Before I go to bed, I wanted to share this. McKenna is now emailing me. Big surprise, right? This almost always happens with people we have to block on this forum. It turns out, that I had one previous email from her, which went as follows:
Do you know of or have an opinion on Deliverance Ministry
No.
That's it. When people write me vague questions with no other details, I give vague answers with no other details.

So, we can confirm that she was a part of the "Deliverance Ministries." Now, I do not cover them on my website yet. I don't have any information to look up about them in my ministry, and that's because I did not grow up around those types of people. However, just for information's sake, for all of you, deliverance so-called "ministries" are rooted in demonology, which is NOT biblical in any sense. Essentially, it's pagan mythology, and they think they are casting out demons, when they're not.

In addition, they tend to have the philosophy that their conversion is based on a demon being cast out of them, which is also rooted in the concepted that the devil in them was at fault for all the wrong they did, and once that devil is out of them, they are now God's children. They never come to repentance of their sin, and that's why McKenna believed that her "turning from sin" and "changing of mind" was the core of her salvation because, it was not really her fault, it was the devil in her.

If you go back and re-read everything she wrote, all the puzzle pieces should start fitting together.

I cannot recommend this pastor because I do not know what basic things he teaches, however, this is a roughly 10-min video of him talking about this subject, and as I listened to it, as far as I know (hopefully, I didn't miss anything), I agreed with everything he said, and I have taught some of the very things he was talking about on the issue of what the Bible does and does not say about casting out devils:


I hope that helps some of you make sense of this, and also helps some of you understand why we ask for someone's testimony of Christ when they claim to be a Christian and enter this forum. We want to preach the gospel of salvation to those (like McKenna) who have not heard it, and also keep out those who would end up causing a lot of trouble on this forum if they stayed.

467

Evangelism / Re: People who are receptive to Repentance

« on: June 22, 2021, 06:51:35 PM »

Just because someone is ignorant of a particular doctrine, does not mean they are not saved, but when they stop exhibiting that heart of repentance, then we know something is wrong. I don't understand what specifically you are asking.

468

Introduce Yourself / Re: New Member

« on: June 22, 2021, 06:48:24 PM »

1Then Job answered and said,
2How long will ye vex my soul,
And break me in pieces with words?
Job 19

Get delivered, stop vexing others Christopher

Hmm. I thought you said:
That is your perception. You're entitled to it, it's your right. And I will never say your perception is wrong. Because it's yours. I will never be able to see through your perception perfectly.
Well, it looks like that was a lie.

If you cannot depart in peace, I will show you the door. I still hope you have a great day and that your family is blessed with all their needs throughout the coming months of change in our country.

469

Introduce Yourself / Re: New Member

« on: June 22, 2021, 04:11:28 PM »

I hope you depart in peace. Have a great day.

470

Introduce Yourself / Re: New Member

« on: June 22, 2021, 12:12:04 PM »

First of all, this "speaking a spirit of doubt over me" thing is a very Charismatic sort of expression. Although I have never been directly involved in Pentecostalism myself (and certainly won't be doing so now!), it has still had some influence in my life. My mother is what I would term semi-Charismatic (meaning that she's not involved in a Charismatic church, and doesn't believe in it wholesale, but still holds to some clearly Charismatic beliefs and practices). She had several Pentecostal friends. Also, I used to listen a lot to Radio Rhema a number of years ago, and that station is full of Pentecostal/Charismatic preachers. I am therefore reasonably familiar with the lingo. So when I see a phrase like that, I can tell its origin. But that aside, I would like to know where in the Bible it talks of anybody "speaking a spirit" of anything over anyone else? What does that even mean, exactly? To me, it sounds more like something out of witchcraft. A lot of stuff that goes on in Charismatic churches is actually witchcraft with a few Biblical phrases tossed in to make it sound Christian. Or if it's not out-and-out witchcraft, it's certainly pagan. "Slaying in the Spirit", for instance, is just an imitation of certain practices that go on in Hinduism. It's the exact same thing, but the Charismatics put a few different labels on it to make it sound Christian.

Rowan, you made a really good point there, and I noticed that too. I saw the problems with her phrasing, but I didn't mention it to her because I did not want to distract from the doctrines of repentance and faith because that's what she needs to hear. However, I didn't know about it being Pentecostal/Charismatic specifically. I knew it matched the type of spiritism that is found in paganism, but you're right, she could be a part of the Charismatic cults, and we just don't have enough information to know.

For anyone else reading this who may not understand, I cover a bit about them in these teachings:
Speaking in Tongues vs Charismatic Gibberish
Revivalism: The Devil's Design

471

Introduce Yourself / Re: New Member

« on: June 22, 2021, 12:04:25 PM »

Your response is even more concerning. First of all, you need to stop trying to speak with us in a sanctimonious tone. All that does is raise everyone's suspicions about you trying to act in a manner apart from how you normally do (i.e. as a call to impress) because I guarantee you don't talk this way to people in a normal, face-to-face conversation. Let's just be simple with one another. If you cannot manage that, then I don't have any interest in continuing conversation with you because I care about what you believe, not what kind of outward appearance you are trying get me to accept.

I gained faith in Jesus Christ through my hard journey. I identified my sins and felt Godly Sorrow. My Godly sorrow resulted in conviction. My conviction resulted in repentance. My repentance lead to turning away from my sin.
Okay, that confirms for me that you have accept a FALSE gospel. There was no correction in your statement, meaning that you did not come to understanding that you did not previously have, and that's because you tried a bit of verbal sleight-of-hand. You defined repentance as the following:
"Repentance is a change of mind, that leads to a change of heart, that leads to a change in actions. This change involves turning from sins and turning to God."
You said 'repentance' means "a change of mind," with the inclusion of "turning from sin." Now, you are trying to snow everyone to say that you had "godly sorrow" that RESULTED in repentance; not that repentance itself IS godly sorrow, but that godly sorrow came AFTER you changed your mind and turned from sin. Again, that is WORKS-BASED DOCTRINE. That is NOT the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and I'm willing to go into the Scriptures on that. (i.e. You will notice how I provided Scripture for you, and you provided nothing but your opinion.)

I hear you again, when you prognosticate that "I will not hear you on this matter"
Here is what I said:
I don't think, at this time, you are going to hear me on the matter,

Actually, my minister might have something to say about all this  "You will likely take great offense" "I don't think you're going to hear me"....
In case other people don't understand the words she's using, she's saying that I'm predicting the future. McKenna, you need to knock this off now because you're starting to get to the point of false accusations, and I'm not going to put up with it. My having a thought, which is based on the evidence of your own writing, is not predicting the future. I simply have a believe that you will not hear me, and that does NOT mean that you will not read what I wrote, but rather, I mean in the sense that Jesus used it, meaning that you will read/hear, but not understand.

So far, I am correct. You are reading what I am writing, but you are not hearing.

Truthfully I  don't have an appreciation for this.
That's why I said: "I know you will likely take great offense to that" You are first trying to say that I was wrong for making those predictions, and now are admitting that I was correct.

You have made it pretty clear that you doubted I would even make it to the end of your letter to me.
When did I say that?

Unfortunately you see me as "listing off my good deeds" When I'm really just trying to make a place here for myself on the forum.
The way to do that is by giving a testimony of Jesus Christ that is according to His Word. You haven't done that yet.

This information has been requested from me, almost specifically. And if I am sharing with you that I make no place for most music and most entertainment of today.... And you see that as me "listing off my good deeds...." Here is an update:
No one asked you if you listen to music or watch TV. We asked you for your testimony of repentance and remission of sins, and so far, you haven't provided it. You are providing a works-based doctrine, and then trying to craftily cover it up.
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
-Luke 24:47
That's why we primarily focus on that matter.

I was sharing because I was under the impression that we had a common denominator: How wonderful God's grace is in our life.
God is graceful to all, but He only saves those with a contrite spirit.
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
-Psa 34:18
In this thread, I see a woman who is trying to act like she's contrite, but it's an act. We have people here who have a contrite spirit, and their speech is a lot different from yours.

I love Luke. I love the book of Acts, too. Written by Luke. So while the pharisee did list off his deeds, he was never asked to account for them, or pray right then. I was asked to be less vague... Now I am being compared to a Pharisee.
Where were you asked to be less vague? Maybe I missed that. I asked just for your understanding of the doctrine of repentance, and you demonstrated that you did not understand it, and then tried to deceive everyone when you were called out on it. (i.e. Trying to change definitions and/or reword it in a more subtle way, hoping that no one would catch on to what you were doing.) That is exactly a Pharisaical attitude; that's exactly the way they acted when confronted by Jesus Christ. The more you talk, the more you're confirming that for me.

Finally, I hear you when you say I do not have a testimony of my salvation In Jesus Christ. That is your perception. You're entitled to it, it's your right. And I will never say your perception is wrong. Because it's yours.
Just you saying that is also confirming for me that you are not following Jesus Christ. You are following a false "jesus" that someone taught you, but it's not the Christian God of the Bible. If what I were saying and teaching is a lie (which, if what you are saying about repentance is true, then my teaching would have to be a lie), then it's not just "my perception," but rather, what I said would be wrong; it would be error. And you are now saying that you would not declare something that is wrong to be wrong, or in other words, you're not going to tell the truth; you are just going to try to get along and yoke together with something that is not true.

You may not see it yet, but we have a drastic disagreement about what is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That is the FOUNDATION of all faith. You seem more determined to be in fellowship with a group, than to be in fellowship on the basis of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That is also very concerning, and demonstrates that you do not care what the Bible actually teaches on this matter.

To call an "error" a "perception" is just flat-out deceptive. McKenna, I want to be straight-forward with you; you are not going to find like-minded brethren here. I don't know who it is you are following, or what you are learning, but it's not the Gospel of Jesus Christ, so you should take your sanctimonious attitude somewhere else.

I will never be able to see through your perception perfectly. The funny thing about perceptions is that singularly, they never match reality. Even a group of perceptions, together, can be mismatched from reality.
We look to the Word of God for reality and perception. So I'm sorry you have wasted your time, but you will not find brethren here. If you ever want to learn the truth of God's Word and follow Jesus Christ instead of following your "minister," then by all means, come back and have a talk with us.

Until then, there is nothing more I can do to help because you don't want to hear (i.e. you don't want to understand). Have a great day.

472

Introduce Yourself / Re: New Member

« on: June 21, 2021, 06:53:28 PM »

Repentance is a change of mind, that leads to a change of heart, that leads to a change in actions. This change involves turning from sins and turning to God.

Okay, so that actually clears up a lot for me, and why I'm getting a works-based false gospel from you. I know you will likely take great offense to that, but that is NOT what the Bible describes repentance to be. I wrote an article on that topic that can help with that:
Is Repentance Part of Salvation?

After I said my first prayer of asking God, to save me, a sinner....

That is precisely why I wrote this (short, free-to-read) book:
Why Millions of Believers on Jesus Are Going to Hell
Essentially, you believe that you "changed your mind/turned from sin" to be saved, adding in a "sinner's prayer" as a cherry on top. That is NOT the gospel that Jesus Christ taught. Whatever you have come to believe, you have been lied to. There is whole lot more deception behind the false teaching of "turning from sin to be saved" than I think you would be willing to hear from me at this point, but just briefly, let me quote what Jesus said at the Sermon on the Mount:

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
-Matthew 7:21-23
Please notice that the people who called Jesus "Lord" (just as you do) all claimed that they did all these things in His name. And yet, He turns them away unto everlasting fire. The question is: Why?

I hope you will take some time to look into those teachings. You have no obligation to do so, but I want to make it clear that I do not yet accept you as a sister in Christ because you have not come to repentance for the remission of sins, and you don't understand what it means. There are millions and millions of people who claim to be Christ, who claim they have turned away from all sorts of sins, and in the end, they will end up in hell. I hope you will take the time to investigate this because it is vitally important.

I changed my mind on being a Lesbian. I changed my heart by ending the lesbian marriage I was in. I changed by giving the SPECIFIC reason (to my ex-companion) of a change of heart and mind, saying I was convicted of the things I had done. Things that would embarrass you if I told you. I turned away from the sin of homosexuality by disengaging in any inordinate relationship with women. I turned away from the PRIDE community. And I did not hide this turning away, some "friends" were very displeased.
My appetite for the word and truthful teachings from anointed teachers, not false ones, increased. A lot.
I looked back at my past self with a perspective I NEVER thought I would have. When I first came out to my family and friends, I was viciously persistent on gay "rights" and victim-minded. I shaved my head and dressed atrociously. I got tattoos, I shaved my head, I started doing drugs, and drinking, engaging in palm readings, tarot cards. I went to Yule, a pagan celebration and considered it "The best thing I had ever experienced". And in my previous mind I never accounted for changing my mind on ANY OF THIS. I believed I was justified and right. I believed witchcraft was the truth and freeing. I believed in feminist ideas and believed I would never change my mind.

I'm glad you turned away from all those things. However, that is NOT a requirement for saving grace, and as far as I can tell by your own words and testimony, you have rejected the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Again, I hope you will look into those teachings to understand what Jesus actually taught.

This lifestyle brought me to a place where I was gathering my straw from the stubble, figuratively. I had reached a hell on earth, I knew I was a child of hell, I knew I was hell-bound and I reached for the last thing I ever thought I would reach for. The Bible. I opened it, and read it. That marks the beginning of my walk. Since then, I have been delivered from my afflictions, curses, and posessions. Deliverance from my affliction is only a permanent thing as I continue to honor God and his Word.

But you have not understood the Gospel of Jesus Christ yet. I'm just basing that on what you're telling me.

I hate sin, I hated the self-deception in my heart. I have an entire willingness to be saved in God's way, and I am very stringent in who I trust, who teaches me, who I listen to, and who I let into my home. I am stringent about what I say, what music I listen to, and where my things come from. I do not leave the door open for the devil to walk back into my life.

And I've heard Catholics say the same things. I've heard Jehovah's Witnesses say the same things. I've heard Seventh-day Adventists and Mormons say the same things. And yet, none of them are of Christ because they rejected the plain doctrine of salvation.

I have faith and know Jesus, knowing he died on the cross, was buried in the grave, and rose from our sins. I have faith and know that Jesus will not leave me high and dry. I have faith and know that the good in my life is directly from God's providence. I have faith and know that if I were to go back to a wicked lifestyle the end result will be the exact same as it was the first time.
Believing in Jesus and enjoying the blessings promised is a NO BRAINER compared to where I was before I accepted Jesus.

And yet, as I quoted earlier from Jesus's own words, He will turn away such people. I hope you will take time to learn why because it is a very serious matter.

I have REAL love for people, and I consider a portion of that Real Love to be when I say the truth on a matter (i.e. 501 c 3) I think a big portion of this real love is a new-found HONESTY with others. A love for JUSTICE, which is the root of wisdom. A Love for Christ that is growing by the second, and a love for His blessings and gifts to me.

I see so many statements you are making that you likely learned from worldly teachers that do not understand Scripture, and there are so many of them, I don't know where to begin. I don't think, at this time, you are going to hear me on the matter, but just to demonstrate one point, the Bible (which are the words of the Living God) does not say that "a love for justice" is the root of wisdom.
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
-Pro 9:10

For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
-Isa 66:2

I seek to be HUMBLE and SANCTIFIED, asking in prayer and being crucified with Christ.

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
-Rom 3:10-12

I have Godly fear. I am dissatisfied with the things of the world. In one word I would describe myself as "Disenchanted"
I have the spirit of Prayer. I do not get out of my bed in the morning without praying to God, asking repentance, asking for him to clear a path that no evil plan or trap befall me. I thank him for safely guarding me in peaceful comfortable rest. And I thank him before my meals. I pray A LOT and I'm only just getting started. I will be praying more, and more, and more.
I am separate from the world. And the world is angry and amazed at this! That I do not watch movies, or listen to mainstream music, that I will not allow this into my life or home.
I am CHASTENED for sin. I listen to my minister and I align myself, I can handle a rebuke and chastening. I do not make excuses for myself and do what I must to remain un-deceived.. From Myself!

I'm sorry to say, these words remind me an awful lot of the attitude of the Pharisee vs the publican; perhaps not in direct accusations, but in spirit, it's there, where one professes himself to be humbled and dedicated to God, while arrogantly listing off all his "good" deeds to supposedly "prove" himself:
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
-Luke 18:9-14
Again, if you look into the links I provided above, you will find a lot more details on that subject.

Have a lovely day, I'm off to work soon

I hope you have a peaceful day at work, but concerning your posts; I have not seen a testimony of salvation in Jesus Christ. I'm saying these things for your sake, that you might come to know who Jesus really is.

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What's New @ CLE / (WEEKLY TEACHING) Psychology: Hoodwinked by the Devil p7

« on: June 21, 2021, 04:04:19 PM »

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Introduce Yourself / Re: New Member

« on: June 21, 2021, 12:21:08 AM »

I hear you. I really did not nuance much of my story. But please be reassured that I do repent. Dreams of the good life do not supersede repentance, I repent of what I do wrong. I do not go through this life self deceived.

I have been vigilantly asked if I have repented. I can give a resounding "Yes". I affirm I have repented, I do repent, and I will repent. I also repent for my possible unwitting mistakes and ignorances. I will continue to repent for things I have done unwittingly or ignorantly.

I was converted from a Homo-Pagan lifestyle to Christianity because from my experiences, the Homo-Pagan lifestyle leads to destruction. My life had brought me to the dead end of destruction. God could not hold back the destruction from falling onto me. I was unrepentant, sinful, and wicked.

I want you to feel relieved that I do know how to distinguish the difference between deliverance and salvation, the casting out of devils and repenting of sins.

McKenna, I keep seeing a pattern in your speech, and I want to address that. I get the impression of your passion for what you believe, but I need to clear something up: Could you define the word 'repentance' for me?

Every time you spoke of the "evidence for your salvation," you went to sin that you have turned from, and that was very concerning to me in this context. I hate to break it to you, but going from being a lesbian to straight relationships is not a requirement for saving grace. I still think you are being vague, and I would very much appreciate your time if you would explain to me your understanding of repentance. I think that would clear up a lot for everyone. Thanks so much for taking the time to help me understand your position.

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Bible Discussion / Re: Analysis of Brian Moonan's Repentance Teaaching

« on: June 21, 2021, 12:10:40 AM »

I'm not sure I remember anymore.

476

Introduce Yourself / Re: New Member

« on: June 20, 2021, 11:54:39 AM »

I have been delivered from drinking, smoking, drugs, the occult, the Mormon cult, homosexuality, paganism, feminism, new age..... And radical leftism. Oh, I was also delivered from delusions, devils, generational curses..

It's great to hear that you have come out of all that, but there are many people out there who have come out of the occult who are not saved. There are many people who have stopped smoking and drinking, but are not saved. There are many people who have come out of feminism and leftism, but they are not saved.

I'm a 26 Year old female, when I started on my journey with Christ, I was ready for the end.

Are you saying that you ARE 26, or that you WERE 26 at that time? But that part about "when I started my journey with Christ," would you share some more details about that?

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Introduce Yourself / Re: New Member

« on: June 19, 2021, 11:52:42 PM »

That's an interesting story. God was really looking out for you that whole time. I'm sure you'll have a lot of interesting things to talk about, considering how much doctrine you have heard and analyzed, and seen the truth in God's Word.

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Introduce Yourself / Re: Kia Ora from New Zealand (Part One)

« on: June 17, 2021, 02:34:13 PM »

Well, the response you just gave was more well rounded, and even from just the short conversation between you and I in this post, I can see evidence of a heart of godly sorrow, in which you are grieved that you have grieved God. That's who we, as a church, are. I am also grieved that I have grieved God by my own sin, so we, as the church, are the born again elect of God, saved by the blood of Christ, who gave us a repentant heart.

And that is the difference between those who profess Christ who go to hell, and those who profess Christ who go on to eternal life in heaven. That's why I wrote this book:
Why Millions of Believers on Jesus Are Going to Hell

I didn't write that because I wanted to make churchgoers angry. I wrote that for people just like you, so they could understand the fullness of Christ's Gospel and have confidence in His salvation. God gives men repentance for the remission of sins, and a lot of people would have already lashed out against us for what we have said to you so far because they never got that repentance, but you did not lash out at us because you were given that humility of repentance.
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
-Heb 6:1

The knowledge, wisdom, and understanding will come with time, study, and prayer.
For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
-Heb 5:13-14

A major reason I want to come here is for fellowship. I don't have a church, and there are no sound churches in my area.

I got that impression. That's why I wanted to address you on those points, just specifically on the Scripture to make sure we're on the same page, and again, that was me speaking from a position of only knowing what you said in your responses since I have not read your original post yet.

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What's New @ CLE / Re: (VIDEO) CLE U.S. Current Events Update | 6-10-21

« on: June 17, 2021, 11:45:53 AM »

When I spoke of false flags within the Q movement, Q warned about this. Be careful who you follow.

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Introduce Yourself / Re: Kia Ora from New Zealand (Part One)

« on: June 17, 2021, 10:34:38 AM »

Apologies for two consecutive posts, but I have just realised that I can't edit my own posts on here (unless there is something I've missed?).

Correct; you only have a 30 minute window to edit your post before it locks. This is to prevent people from altering posts for deceptive reasons, of which we have had many such people blocked from doing so.